WWI Recognition Models

[Balsabasher]

Most interesting Mark,what a great story this is about the origins of 1=72nd scale,I like the bit about hiding the parts in his apron ! thank you so much for reproducing this here as it all adds up to the historical side and gives us a wider picture of things.
When I find that article which as in 'Model Aircraft' magazine and not the 'Aeromodeller' by the way I will scan it and show it here,there was a Mr Capon that made rubber driven scale models and had plans published in the 'Aeromodeller' one was a early Spitfire and the other a Heinkel 112,I wonder if this is the same person ?
Barry.

[Mark Braunlich]

Barry,
I corresponded with Mr. Capon (or Pete as he signed himself) before he passed away.  Very interesting gentleman of the "old school".  He went on to be a junior draughtsman at de Havilland and kept his own full size Sopwith Pup at Stag Lane which he bought cheaply and with which he was going to teach himself to fly.   He later worked at Hawker under the great Sydney Camm and of whom he was somewhat terrified.  He claimed to me to be the draughtsman of the Hurricane's tailplane.  He was an avid photographer and many of his photos appear in the Putnam series of aviation books.

He did buld lots of flying models and had his own model company....Kapon Kraft or something like that.  He designed a beautiful Wakefield model called the Krusader which was published in Model Aircraft after WW2, by which time it was obsolete.  I didn't know he made flying scale models.

Cheers,
Mark

[Balsabasher]

He really does sound an interesting old boy from times past when people had higher standards than today,the Pup should be traceable if it was civil registered as many in fact were,my father also built Wakefields and I still have a drawing of one that he built the fusealge for,that was a beautiful design as well,obsolete or not I would still build that Wakefield Mark,the older designs have more character to them including the shapely aeroplanes we build as solids.
I will always remember that name now you have mentioned it and we may find out more,thank you for your interest.
Barry.

[Mark Braunlich]

His Pup was G-EBAZ.
Mark

[Lotus-14]

Outside of the obvious use for the models for identification training, there was another use, which was considered by the government to be of equal importance, and that was making sure that the public felt they were involved with and contributing to the war effort.
Unlike Britain, the U.S. was not in a war zone, and their wasn't the day to day reminders of the war.  The U.S. government developed programs which brought home the war, and an attempt was made to make sure the public felt they were part of it. Such things as "Victory Gardens," scrap drives, plane spotters, Civil Defense, and rationing was part of those programs. Quite a bit was not necessary in the U.S., but it was done to make people feel they were part of the war.
So was the involvement in youth programs such as Scouts, Civil Air Patrol Cadets, and others. The building of I.D. models was part of that.  Yes, the need for models might have existed, but even after the need had diminished the models were still being built.
Years ago in the back of a thrift shop I came across a large manila envelope with some I.D. model plans in it. But what was as much of interest to me was it was filled with forms, certificates, and letters for the running of the program at a Midwestern high school. It obviously had belonged to a shop teacher or Principal of a school, as this was the documents sent over the course of the war, to him from the government. A lot of the paper had to do with keeping up the interest among students, and to make sure the students felt they were contributing to the war effort. There were things such as assigned quotas, which kept up the sense of urgency.
As far as I.D. model use during either World War 1, or World War 2, the difference was the much larger size of the combat arms and the need to quickly train people to fly and fight, not to mention the Navy, anti-aircraft personnel and the civilian aircraft spotters. Specific training techniques and aids were developed by experts in the field of learning, which didn't exist during WW1. So I would say that it is possible there were some locally made spotting models during WW1, but it was not a government program.

[Balsabasher]

Very interesting dialogue Lotus,I agree there must have been those who were model builders and felt the need for some type of ID platform,this is where we can re-create a bit of history ourselves by placing ourselves in the position of recognition instructors and designing simple biplane models that fulfill these requirements ( see my recent BE2C and Fokker D7 and currently the RE8 ) Fascinating social history in that envelope and worthy of a museum in fact,it would be interesting to know the actual quotas ? and was there a requirement to do as many twins as single engines etc ? or more complex flying boats as well,a tough task for youngsters who probably struggled with simple woodworking joints even.
We can still proudly look back on these programs and even today re-enact a complete collection of those ID models from the plans we have,no mean feat for anyone !
Barry.

[Mark Braunlich]

Probably not of 1917-'18 vintage, these models are currently for sale on ebay.  Thought you would like to see them Barry.  The Albatros D.III is 7" span.  The AGO C.IV is 10" span.

[Balsabasher]

Very interesting Mark,they look like 1930's vintage but I have no idea their origin ? possible solid kits or from plans perhaps.
Any chance of the link to these please Mark ?
Barry.

[Balsabasher]

That should be AEG C.IV as the type of aircraft.
Barry.

[Balsabasher]

Looking for those two I found these two delightful solids,the aeroplane looks like a Percival Gull.
Barry.

[Mark Braunlich]

That should be AEG C.IV as the type of aircraft.
Barry.

I respectfully disagree.
http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/ago_c-4.php

http://acepilots.com/airplanes/country/german/ago-civ/

[Balsabasher]

You are right Mark,never heard of AGO ? at first I thought it was a misprint,interesting,thank you for the correction.
Barry.

[Will]

That should be AEG C.IV as the type of aircraft.
Barry.

Barry,

You won't be the first to be caught out by the WW1 German Army Air Force's type designation.  In theory AGO C.IV means the 4th C-type aircraft from the AGO concern, AEG C.IV would be the 4th C-type aircraft from AEG.

Not all designations got as far as production and combat, hence Pfalz fighters went from D.III to D.XII, the numbers in between generally being unsuccessful prototypes or at least not the choice adopted by the military.

The designations letters were no doubt clear back in 1915 but have become confused since.  There's a good set-out of what the letters were probably supposed to mean and some of the confusing elements here http://www.wwi-models.org/misc/desig.html


Will

[Balsabasher]

Will most interesting historical material,WW1 aircraft are a specialised and absorbing subject in themselves,it was always my aim to get a representative collection of models to cover this important period in history,not always the well known ones but subjects like this AGO C.IV with its most unusual wing planform,I have the Janes Aircraft reproduction volume for 1914-18 types in production throughout the world,it also includes the unique old engines as well with those massive propellers to pull them through the air.
Thank you for your interest and sharing of knowledge it is much appreciated,it is true we learn something new every day !
Barry.

[Mark Braunlich]

If you read the above thread, I made mention some time ago about Pete Capon and his role in introducing 1/72 scale.  His first models were 6" span Avro 504s which he sold to fellow employees at the London furniture factory where he was employed making wings for full size 504s ca 1917.   Span of the full size airplane is 36' so the 6" model worked out to 1/72 scale.   I recently saw this 1/72 Avro 504K for sale on the internet and while I have no reason to believe this is one of Peter's original models, I thought I would include it here.

Note: Most on-line histories credit A.J.Holladay & Co. Ltd with originating 1/72 scale with their Skybirds kits starting in 1932.   Skybirds were the first 1/72 kits but the Capon models, sold fully assembled starting in 1917 and continuing into the early '20s, are the first known models in that scale.

Mark