Happy Veterans Day, Rememberance Day, Armistice Day

[Mark Braunlich]

At lunch today in the little cafe across the street from the office where I work I saw a guy wearing his VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) cap.  I stuck out my hand and said thanks...and that started the stories pouring out.  He had just come back from seeing the last of his bomber crew buried in Washington State, he called him his brother.  42 missions over Germany.  An amazing gentleman in poor health himself and ready to go join his "brothers".  Wish you all could have met him....they're disappearing fast.   Thank you guys!

[Balsabasher]

What a moving story you have painted for us all Mark,our debt to these veterans cannot be measured in any form,the ultimate sacrifice and witnessing these events is so sad.
Thank you for these words,Barry.

[Mothman]

When it's these old guys who were conscripted, i have a very great respect and gratitude.  much less so for those who sign up in modern days knowing the risk and then pretending that it makes us safe.  Nobody fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan or the odd campaign in Kosovo was keeping us safe in England or America or anywhere else, much. They essentially failed in Iraq and will always fail in Afghanistan, just as the Russkies did and the Victorian English before them, partly because of the terrain, partly because you can't beat a man with a cause, particularly on their home ground.
So when the modern guys sign on the dotted line KNOWING they will be up against the **** sooner or later, I just regard them as fools.  And when they have wives and children at home I regard that as an almost criminal irresponsibility.
If you wanna be a hardnut, be a single hardnut.  Hurt only yourself and don't look for my sympathy

My Grandad's and Dad's generation and just after, God bless you all.

Martin

[edited by moderator; please be civil, folks]

[Will]

Martin,

Your comments and more particularly your use of pejorative terms for other nations is inappropriate and unwelcome.

Your comments aren't even particularly valid.  UK forces in World War One were all professionals at the start and volunteers until 1916 or so.  In the second War the core of each of the services was the professional member, again with many volunteers as well as conscriptees.

I would point out my grandfather was a career Royal Navy family man serving through the Second World War (allegedly the only shipwright in the Fleet Air Arm).  I imagine other SMM's will have had family members who served their countries whether conscripted or as their professions.

Will

[lastvautour]

I volunteered and served 35 years not knowing if I would be called to give the ultimate sacrifice. However, others of my generation including me and those currently serving, would have and will lay down their lives in support of their countries demands. The location or the fight may not be seen as being ours, but our troops, airmen and sailors will carry out their duty as assigned by our lawfully elected government. They do so with as much patriotism as those who went before us and equally deserve our appreciation and respect. "Lest We Forget" includes veterans past, present and future.

Louis J Vautour, Chief Warrant Officer (Retired) M.M.M., CD
Royal Canadian Air Force, Canadian Forces

[Mothman]

I realise I'm fighting a losing battle here against Armed forces fans, a powerful group, but I still say those who sign up when they know there's a big risk should not expect everybody's sympathy. It was their choice.  Where they ended up actually fighting to protect their home countries, that is one thing.  In the First World War, fighting was about the only way to earn a living at all and again, a different story.
It should also be noted that the English (British, if you must) have always been a most bellicose nation of natural pugilists. Hardly something to be proud of, but those who were called upon to be so, did us proud.
They had very little choice.
I just think a little perspective is called for here lest we go too far in our not forgetting and start to glorify war and deify those who choose it as a living, perhaps not always an apt word.

Will, I used a phrase those fighting in those Wars always use.  It would be hypocrisy to do otherwise.

I have seen more than my fair share of totally and tragically screwed up ex serving men to feel anything but contempt for War and all the militarists who seem to feed on its stories, myths and legends.

And don't forget, many died for my right to hold these views.  I first heard them expressed by my ex RAF War served father.  I have never seen any reason to change them.

Martin

[cliff strachan]

Martin and all:
I do agree that you have "the right to hold [your] views". But there is a great many views to be expressed and I, for one, strongly believe that a forum such as this is NOT the place to let go.
Cliff.

[Mothman]

Then it would always be best to restrict a special interest forum to that special interest. Allowing a "talk about anything" section is always asking for debate/conflict and I'm surprised that so many forums do allow it.

Martin