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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Oceaneer99 on July 15, 2011, 05:43:27 PM

Title: Japanese tools
Post by: Oceaneer99 on July 15, 2011, 05:43:27 PM
Kenji posted a photo of his Japanese carving tools:

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10253/normal_tools.jpg)

He pointed out that the plane is a traditional Japanese pull plane.

There has been a lot of interest in recent years in Japanese tools here in the US and I believe also in the UK (I occasionally buy UK woodworker's magazines).  In particular, Japanese saws ("pull saws"; the most common ones sold in the States are: "dozuki", "ryoba" types).

Garet
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: Balsabasher on July 15, 2011, 08:27:27 PM
Now a pull plane make good sense,much like the traditional spokeshave the advantages are more control with the pulling motion,the bench stop would also work in reverse,interesting tools Garet and I would not mind a set in my toolkit.
Are these available outside of Japan ?
Barry.
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: lastvautour on July 15, 2011, 11:31:55 PM
In comparison, there is a multitude of tools in my basement. With just the basic tools Kenji has made outstanding models that rank amongst the best I have seen. Congratulations on such fine skills.

Lou
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: Balsabasher on July 15, 2011, 11:47:27 PM
Lou I could do with a wide chisel like the one that you have in the picture,most useful.

Kenji uses so few tools but produces masterpieces,we can learn a lot from him.

Barry.
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: scottzepher on July 18, 2011, 06:37:10 PM
When I first got into woodworking there was a fancy tool shop in NYC that sold Japanese tools.  I bought the carpenter's knife (third from left in picture) and an assortment of waterstones.  I've yet to get the hang of the waterstones, but the knife is great either in removing large amounts of wood or minor detail work.  It's also the easiest blade I have to keep sharp.

Tom
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: Peter on July 18, 2011, 08:18:12 PM

Some Japanese working tools are carried by

www.leevalley.com

I have purchased my Japanese from them and they're excellent quality for eight bucks each! They also so have Japanese finger files that look quite useful as well as some Japanese carving knives. Excellent company with excellent service.

Also I have heard good things about this company from a Whittling email group I have joined
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/page.asp?content_id=10045 (http://www.japanwoodworker.com/page.asp?content_id=10045)

I think they carry most of the tools in Kenji's photo.

Peter
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: Oceaneer99 on July 18, 2011, 11:50:44 PM
Come to think of it, Ray gave me a Japan Woodworker catalog a while back...
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: Ken Pugh on July 19, 2011, 01:27:05 PM
These tools are a challenge to research.  There are some people selling tools that are shaped like the Japanese tools, but the metallurgy is not the same.  This does not work because they are doing different things with the steel.

Take the chisel, for example.  We have chisels in the west with the same shape, but it is a solid steel, probably a stainless steel on the low quality items or good carbon steel on the better chisels.  The Japanese frequently use layered steels.  I don't know all the details but they are keen on making the tool that takes and holds a good edge, but also needs to be used with a certain technique and that works best on native woods.  There is a lot to absorb.

I have seen some tools on the Japan Woodworker site that are very cheap, which is a caution flag for me, but appear to be made the proper way.  I am especially intrigued with the tools that are just the steel without handles.  That is a pain for the beginner but the journeyman woodworker has no problem at all making the handle that he wants instead of suffering with what the manufacturer provides.  I am glad we have a thread for this topic now so we can learn what they original Japanese tools are supposed to do and post where they can be found in the west.

Overall, I am glad we finally have a Japanese modeller on our site because I am eager to learn their techniques, tools, and materials.  I am constantly looking at other disciplines for some small technique to add to my skill set.  We definitely need a project board for Kenji.

Ken Pugh
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: Balsabasher on July 19, 2011, 08:29:43 PM
Ken interesting comments especially on the layered steel,I agree also having Kenji onboard is so interesting,we have a lot to learn,just look at his models they are superb,yes a board for Kenji please.

Barry.
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: K_mars on July 20, 2011, 09:18:37 PM
Thank you.

I want to show you the Japanese tools and to show the usage.

The knife is said, "kogatana"or"kurikogatana". It is a thing that can be bought anywhere in Japan.
I can help you.

Other interesting Japanese tools are ready also to show.

This photo is cowling of Nakajima Ki-84.I made it for an exercise of exact work.The tools which I used is simple things such as a knife or the chisel.


kenji.
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: Ken Pugh on July 21, 2011, 12:28:39 PM
Thank you very much, Kenji.  That blade is available at the link below.

http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01%2E041%2E06&dept_id=13221 (http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=01%2E041%2E06&dept_id=13221)

Is the knife you are using beveled only on the right side or both sides?

Ken Pugh
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: lastvautour on July 21, 2011, 01:22:09 PM
The workmanship on the cowling is awesome. Is this a finished model? Are the different colours of the wood different pieces of the same wood or a different type?

Lou
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: K_mars on July 21, 2011, 08:53:53 PM
Ken,

I am using beveled only on the right side.

The under is "kurikogatana". It uses it to scoop out the hole.

http://japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=11.048&dept_id=13221

This photo my knife.This knife can plane aluminum.

kenji.
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: K_mars on July 21, 2011, 09:10:37 PM
Lou,

It is producing it still. The same tree with different color is used.

This is a propeller of the same airplane.

kenji.
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: lastvautour on July 21, 2011, 09:44:17 PM
It is a beautiful propeller. I need to learn a lot from you.

Lou
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: Balsabasher on July 21, 2011, 10:39:39 PM
We are seeing here some really outstanding and beautiful workmanship,the blades on this propeller look just right and as we all know this is no easy task to achieve such a delicate curve like this,I am looking at these tools especially that knife and thinking how much I want one myself ! it is so re-assuring to know that carving in general is alive in Japan especially as these tools are readily available.
Kenji you are a true master and we can learn so much from you.
Barry.
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: K_mars on July 21, 2011, 11:22:19 PM
Lou and Barry,

Thank you so much.
I am not a master so that you are said. But I like engraving a wood.

The processes to make a propeller seem to be as follows.

1.I can make it with thin materials than I think by a drawing.This is because a blade is twisted.
2.I make the blade with two pieces of sets. This method is to make it easy to grasp it by hand.Most make only a knife.
3.I finish it with sandpaper and paint with sanding sealer.
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: Balsabasher on July 21, 2011, 11:44:35 PM
That makes good sense Kenji,the most difficult part to reproduce is the helical pitch which I can see you have incorporated,my father who was a wizard at making flying propellers for rubber driven models used to scrape the rear of the propeller with a piece of glass held in a cloth,he would make his 'glass tools' by placing a bottle into a thick cloth and smash it against the ground,then he would find a suitable piece to scrape with,he told me that glass was sharper than most ordinary tools,but this method would be difficult to our small scales.
A propeller is something that looks easy but it is not to reproduce,yours are the finest that I have seen,the explanation is excellent with those drawings.
Barry.
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: K_mars on July 22, 2011, 12:14:35 AM
Barry,

The propeller of the flying model from which your father is made is difficult.
What I am making seems to be it and the seen imitation.
I want to learn in what process modelers are making the propeller.

kenji.
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: Balsabasher on July 22, 2011, 11:40:55 AM
I will photograph the stages in making my next miniature propeller,there is a definate technique that ensures the realistic pitch change throughout the blades.
We are proving now that what we think are easy tasks are not but with mutual help can be simplified,by discussing them we are all learning a lot,interchange of ideas is refreshing.
Barry.
Title: Re: Japanese tools
Post by: cliff strachan on July 22, 2011, 06:43:07 PM
It is without a doubt beautiful workmanship, Kenji
Cliff.