Hello to all,
If anyone out there has copies of the Monogram balsa ships from the '40s-'50s, and is willing to scan them, please let me know.
I would like to get copies, so I can build these models. I made all of them back when they were still being sold, and would like to do it again.
I am also interested in any of the Ideal models as well; particularly the USS Wasp, small Sub Chaser, and small Cost Guard Cutter.
Thanks for any help. Tim
Tim,
These plans would be excellent. I'm going through the SMM archives now. Not everything from the old site is on this site yet. Also, Ray gave me a few of the hard copies of the AMCO ship plans for me to make new scans.
Here is what we have of a similar nature. For those that are not already on the site, I'll try to get them all posted in the next week or so.
Airway USS Hull
Amco Aircraft Carrier
Amco Cruiser
Amco Destroyer USS Blue
Amco Submarine
Comet Battleship
Comet PT-9 (larger model)
Comet USS Gridley
Comet USS Indianapolis
Comet USS Perch
Comet USS Saratoga
Craftokit Cruiser
Ideal USS Farragut
Ideal USS Preston
Megow USS Constitution (low quality scan)
Megow Seth Parker (low quality scan)
Monogram USS Hobby (partial plan)
Strombecker USS California
Strombecker USS Indianapolis
Whitman Sub Chaser
Whitman USS Brookyln
Whitman USS Lexington
Whitman USS Ramsay
These kits are pretty rare, so if anyone has plans for these or similar kits, please let us know.
Also, Ray and I went to the Puget Sound Naval Museum and found that most of their ID Ship models were taken off display by the Navy and moved back to Washington, DC. We know that there were plans for ID ship models made during WW II (because we have a photograph of some boys making models, with one of the plans tacked to the wall behind them), but unlike the aircraft ID models, we have not found a good source for the plans, or even a list of the model plans that were available. If anyone has and leads on these, we would be very, very interested to hear from you.
I do have a copy of "US Navy Waterline Models", which has a fair number of 1:1200 ship plans, all US ships from WW II. The book was printed just after World War II.
Thank you,
Garet
Hi,
I, too, built Monogram ship models back in the 50's. I built two of them: the USS Missouri and the LST. However, I have recently acquired four un-built models with their respective plans in their original boxes: the USS Missouri, the USS Shangri-la, the LST, and a Destroyer. I will scan the plans in the next few days and post them.
Joe
Hi,
I scanned the plans for the USS Missouri. Due to the size of my scanner's bed, I had to scan the plans in four sections. Also I reduced the files to meet (I hope) the requirements for this site. Please let me know if the scans are satisfactory. If so, I will do the others next week in the same manner.
One of the features I remember best about this model was the "Peace Table". The experience of building this model allowed me to learn about the signing of the document ending WWII. I remember painting the little rectangular solid green. At the time I built the model very few 10/11 year-old boys knew the document was signed about the Missouri while she was at anchor in Tokyo Bay--or that Gen. Douglas MacArthur presided over the signing. I learned all that because I was curious about the significance of the "Peace Table". To me, this is yet another example of the collateral benefit of building models.
Joe
Hi, again,
I also have plans for the following Strombecker models: USS Texas, USS Nautilus (diesel), USS Warrington, USS Gambier Bay, USS Buckley, and the USS Yorktown. If you wish, I can scan those, as well, and post them. Please let me know.
Joe
Joe,
Thank you! We would really enjoy seeing those. I sent you a separate e-mail regarding plans submissions.
Garet
Magnificent plan of the Missouri, Joe! But isn't it incomplete? Shouldn't there be a sheet also for the hull templates and one to delineate the superstructure elements as well?
Hi,
I have been working with Garet to do better job of archiving these plans. I hope what we do will serve the site's needs appropriately.
In regard to the superstructure/hull template plans, I have attached a pieced-together incomplete set here. I am still missing one part, as you can see. But I hope this helps.
I am also attaching a scan of part of a Monogram Models flyer that shows all five of the warship models. To date I am only missing the Cruiser, USS Chicago. However, I am on the hunt for it.
Regards,
Joe
Hi Joe,
Thanks for the Monogram Missouri Scan. There is a site that has some of the Monogram ship plans, but they were photographed and not scanned, so the quality is very low.
I have built mostly airplanes, but have always built models representing a number of interests. Everything from trains to planes at one time or another.
I built each of the Monogram ships, as well as Strombecker, and Ideal ships.
When I was a Scout about 60 years ago, Ideal had a series of "Official Boy Scout" ship models, which I built. As the greatest percentage of plane models I built were flying models, the ships lasted far longer in my collection. Unfortunately while I was in the Army, my parents had a garage fire, where all my stuff was stored, and I lost them all. But I am slowly building up a collection of replicas of the ship models I had.
Thanks for the help.
Tim
Quote from: Joe on November 01, 2009, 06:54:32 AM
Hi, again,
I also have plans for the following Strombecker models: USS Texas, USS Nautilus (diesel), USS Warrington, USS Gambier Bay, USS Buckley, and the USS Yorktown. If you wish, I can scan those, as well, and post them. Please let me know.
Joe
Hi Joe,
If possible, I'd like to get a scan of the USS Warington, and Gambier Bay. Also if you have the kits, can you tell me how long the Texas is? I have scans of the plans, but the scale is unknown to me, and judging by the dimensions given to locate some of the desk houses, the model seems that it is smaller than the other Strombecker ships.
Tim
Quote from: Oceaneer99 on November 01, 2009, 05:16:25 AM
Tim,
These plans would be excellent. I'm going through the SMM archives now. Not everything from the old site is on this site yet. Also, Ray gave me a few of the hard copies of the AMCO ship plans for me to make new scans.
Also, Ray and I went to the Puget Sound Naval Museum and found that most of their ID Ship models were taken off display by the Navy and moved back to Washington, DC. We know that there were plans for ID ship models made during WW II (because we have a photograph of some boys making models, with one of the plans tacked to the wall behind them), but unlike the aircraft ID models, we have not found a good source for the plans, or even a list of the model plans that were available. If anyone has and leads on these, we would be very, very interested to hear from you.
I do have a copy of "US Navy Waterline Models", which has a fair number of 1:1200 ship plans, all US ships from WW II. The book was printed just after World War II.
Thank you,
Garet
Hi Garet,
I am wondering if the National Archives, or the Smithsonian might have the plans.
I ran across a website that discussed the Japanese internment in the western U.S., and there were a couple of photos of boys building I.D. ship models.
I wonder if the Ship models were a special program, not as wide spread as the airplanes.
I met a fellow who had a very large collection of I.D. ships and one of them had the name of a Folsom prison woodworking shop stamped on the bottom. It seemed odd at the time, but it does make sense as there was, at least in California, prison shops which were building furniture for the school system.
Tim
Hi, Tim,
I apologize for being so long in replying, but I have been away. I do have plans for both the USS Gambier Bay and the USS Warrington. I also have the kits for those models as well as a built Warrington. And I also have both the plans and a built model of the USS Texas; However, the plans for the Texas are in fairly poor shape.
I will try to scan the plans next week and post them for you. The built models are in a "grandchild-proof" shelf and somewhat hard to get to, but I think I have time next week to open the shelf and measure the Texas for you. I will also send you a photo of the built model. Meanwhile, I have attached a photo of the "grandchild-proof" shelf and you can (barely) see the Texas at the end of the line of Strombecker ship models.
Regards,
Joe
Wow, I like those ships in natural finish, they look grandchild proof without the case. Are they fragile?
Hi, Dave,
Yes, they are fragile--some feature 1/16" dowel, etc. As regards finish, Strombecker encouraged the builder to use a natural finish. All the pictured ship models are from the 30's save one. The USS Nautilus diesel submarine is the only surviving model that I made as a youth in the late 40's. It came off the dusty back shelf of my local hobby shop back when.
Joe
Tim,
Per your request I am posting three sets of plans in three separate postings on this thread: the USS Texas, the USS Gambier Bay, and the USS Warrington. The Texas items are included in this note.
The plans are old and fragile and, thus, I have left them in their archival sleeve. I think they are still readable. As regards the length of the ship, all the Strombecker ship models I have are ca. 10"-11" long. I suspect that was done so that all the boxes could be a uniform 12" long. However, that is only conjecture on my part. I conclude that was the common length because all 6 of my built models are in that range and all 4 of my unbuilt kits are in that range.
I will try to open my "grandchild-proof" case later on and photograph the model for you.
Regards,
Joe
Tim,
Hereto the USS Gambier Bay.
Regards,
Joe
Tim,
Here is the USS Warrington.
Regards,
Joe
Dave,
I have taken the liberty of attaching one more photo to this thread. It is a photo of some of my vintage 30's Strombecker model airlplanes, all done in the natural finish that you fancied. They are hanging from the ceiling of my sanctum sanctorum. As you can see the linen thread I used to hang them is a bit of an overkill in terms of "diameter". I plan to go to a more reasonable nylon thread someday...
Regards,
Joe
Joe, do you have a membership in the gallery? You can post much larger images there.
Would you like your own builders board?
RFB
It would be nice to see larger shots of them, still, they look good. What is the twin engine flying boat, a Grumman of some sort? That one really caught my eye.
Hi, Dave,
The twin engine flying boat is a Sikorsky S-43. I will endeavor to get some close-ups of these models in the not-too-distant future.
Regards,
Joe
Thanks for answering all my questions Joe. ;)
Tim,
It would seem that I was a Boy Scout about the same time you were: the 50's. I was raised in Southern California and the hobby shop in my hometown was called Heywood's; it was a real treat to ride my bike there, ogle the model airplanes hanging from the ceiling and partake of something else Mr. Heywood sold, soft drinks or milk shakes. His store was both a hobby shop and an ice cream store!
However, unlike your experience, the Boy Scouts led me to change hobbies from model building to American Indian handicrafts. Have you noticed my avatar? I made all the items on the mannikin...
At any rate, I hope the scans I made have helped you.
Regards,
Joe
Dave,
I am glad that I could answer your questions. I enjoyed Strombecker models as a youth and the interest has not seemed to flag with time. I began collecting kits and finished models awhile back and then decided to try my hand at restoration. As an adult, I have not built any kits: I prefer to restore the old, beat-up models that seem to appear regularly around here.
Regards,
Joe
I have finished the restoration of the USS Hobby destroyer plans by Monogram and will post them in the next few days.
Garet
Hello again,
I wanted to thank everyone for the great replies to my request. I would still like to see the LST plans.
I have a copy of the Monogram USS Chicago, which I will scan and add to the site.
I have been busy, and have not had time to do much model building, but i plan on submitting some info and pictures soon.
I'm working on a small diorama of the USS California using bits and pieces from an old built up model.
As soon as I am done, I'll post it.
Regards to all,
Tim
Tim,
Joe sent me the LST plans a while back. They aren't ready for posting, but I'll e-mail you the raw scans.
Garet
Tim,
Many thanks for the restoration work! I posted the plan here:
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10028/normal_LST_608.gif)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=4463 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=4463)
Garet
Even though your plans copies are not clean, I would put them up into the gallery, I may just tackle myself a few clean up here and there when I have time. otherwise it may take for ever to bring all those drawing up only if there are cleaned. ;D
Regards
Ben
Is that all there is to these Monogram ship models, or are pages missing from the plans? It seems they all lack important details, without which I'm not sure I'd want to even attempt building them.
Specifically, there's nothing in the plans posted for the Gambier Bay or the LST that gives you an adequate view of the shape of the hull -- the flare of the bows, for instance, or the contour of the stern. and Neither the Gambier Bay, the LST, nor the Missouri plans give you details of the many pieces that go together to make up the superstructure. All you have is the overhead and side view of the assembled model. There's no way I can see that you could build an accurate model from that alone.
So are we missing something here? Or am I? ???
Interestingly, the older, less sophisticated, plans -- such as those for the Texas and warrington -- do show the supwerstructure pieces in detail, although they seem to lack templates or illustrations for the hull contours. Is that all left to the imagination?
Inquiring minds wanna know!
The cross-section templates are definitely missing. You can see the station lines on the drawings. Monogram probably supplied a block of wood pre-sized for the hull. Maybe the superstructure parts were done the same way.
http://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=9207&mat=balsaship (http://www.oldmodelkits.com/index.php?detail=9207&mat=balsaship)
Dave:
Pre-sized or sawn to rough shape, perhaps, but you still need something more to go by in shaping the contours. Interestingly, the link you provided to the Monogram LST kit reads (in part): "The hull is precarved. The rest of the kit is wood, printed wood, cardstock and wire."
That's probably the answer right there: The superstructure pieces were probably "printwood". There are hull templates with the Missouri plan, but even so, all these models are essentially "un-buildable". Interesting as artifacts, but not sufficiently complete to be practicable or accurate.
Too bad. I would like to have taken a crack at them...
You are all correct. I've seen some of these kits come up on e-bay, and they have a "pre-molded" hull and printed sheetwood. We have only the plans here, so are missing all that key information. They are a little like the old Comet balsa-and-tissue plans, which do not show the printwood patterns. I think the hulls actually were molded out of sawdust and glue, so a little bit like particle board, and not carved out of a solid block. I tried a few home-brew recipes of my own, but never had any success, unless I used epoxy and wood flour, which makes for an expensive hull.
As Fingers noted, the older Strombecker ship plans have enough information to build them from the plans (the models were simplified anyway). This contrasts with their later airplane kits, which had pre-carved pieces, so their airplane plans aren't sufficient to build from.
Me, I don't care if there are "missing" or "not any key information", I am very great-full "Hurray" to all of you who brings those nice plans here, it is a lot of work to post all this!
Thank you all! :)
Ben
Ben,
With a little research, I don't think it would be too difficult to create a model of the LST using the Monogram drawing. The hull is not that complicated, especially if you made a waterline model. There are many photos of them online and some two view drawings of a camouflage scheme (see below). My ships of the fleet reference book says nearly 70,000 LSTs of different classes were delivered by 1944.
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g100000/g172986c.htm (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g100000/g172986c.htm)
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g100000/g172985c.htm (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g100000/g172985c.htm)
Quote from: Oceaneer99 on June 25, 2010, 08:36:39 PM
They are a little like the old Comet balsa-and-tissue plans, which do not show the printwood patterns.
Actually, most of the old Comet stick-and-tissue aeroplane plans I've seen and built DO show the printwood patterns, which is why you can still build them. Like this Bristol Fighter...
What good is showing a picture of a completed model then, Only that it may inspire.
That's my point. It's a pity, because these are really nice-looking models, judging by the pictures. I'd have loved to have been able to try my hand at them, because my uncle built these same models back in the 40s when he was a kid, and did a beautiful job on them. He still has the Warrington and Gambier Bay models, which I've admired since my own childhood. He also built the Missouri, which he gave to me to play with as a child. Needless to say, it suffered from the experience! I was excited when I saw the plans here, because it would have been nice complete the circle, so to speak, by building them myself. But if there's one thing I DON'T need my avocation to be, it's a source of frustration, and I can't imagine anything being more frustrating than getting part-way into a build, only to find that I couldn't accurately replicate the parts needed to complete the job with any acceptable degree of accuracy.
That being said, I do realize that this site serves more than one purpose, and that everyone comes to it with different expectations and needs, and may find pleasure in it in different ways. For some, it may be enough just to be able to see and collect these wonderful old plans, however complete or incomplete they may be. That's fine for them, and I applaud both those who find fulfilment in that way and those whose generosity in sharing their plans with all of us here enables them to do so.
I'm not sure that the Monogram LST kit was all that accurate to begin with anyway. I know some of the Strombeckers were way off, but since these kits were manufactured primarily for a younger audience, extreme accuracy wasn't the goal (notice the tank). A perfectly acceptable reproduction of the kit could be done with the materials provided along with reference photos.
A future cook-up maybe?
Monogram's Fighting Ships. Links with pictures of what each kit looked like, including cross-section templates.
http://www.philsaeronauticalstuff.com/oldmodels/usfighingships/usfightingships.html (http://www.philsaeronauticalstuff.com/oldmodels/usfighingships/usfightingships.html)
Fingers, you are correct that the older Comet balsa and tissue plans, such as the classid "Dime Scale" plans, did have fun patterns. I should have been more specific. The later kits, which I bought as a boy, usually did not have the printwood patterns on the plan. This was always an aggravation for me when it came time to make major repairs.
I also misspoke earlier about the moulded hulls. Those were in the Ideal ship kits, not Monogram.
Garet
Quote from: Oceaneer99 on November 01, 2009, 05:16:25 AM
..... For those that are not already on the site, I'll try to get them all posted in the next week or so.
Airway USS Hull
Amco Aircraft Carrier
Amco Cruiser
Amco Destroyer USS Blue
Amco Submarine
Comet Battleship
Comet PT-9 (larger model)
Comet USS Gridley
Comet USS Indianapolis
Comet USS Perch
Comet USS Saratoga
Craftokit Cruiser
Ideal USS Farragut
Ideal USS Preston
Megow USS Constitution (low quality scan)
Megow Seth Parker (low quality scan)
Monogram USS Hobby (partial plan)
Strombecker USS California
Strombecker USS Indianapolis
Whitman Sub Chaser
Whitman USS Brookyln
Whitman USS Lexington
Whitman USS Ramsay
Garet, like I said earlier, if you need help re-assemble those and clean them, I'm not to bad with graphic tools, send a couple of those raw scans my way, and I'll resend them clean and all
Ben
Ben,
Thank you for your offer to help with the plans. I'm trying to get a bit more organized regarding both the plans and the volunteers. June/July have turned into a wild set of months for me this year, so it may be late summer before I can get some of these plans farmed out for volunteers to work on. But I certainly appreciate the offers and intend to follow up on them.
Garet
It's too bad that "philsaeronautics" didn't scan the plans, and other patterns.
The Monogram plans give you all the information you need to replicate the models.
They are all about the same length; like Strombecker they were "box scale," but were much more accurate.
I made all of them as a kid.
To answer some of the comments.
1. The hulls were cut to outline side and top view. There was some shaping of the hull, but to get to the final shape, you needed to do some sanding to match the templates.
2. The superstructure build depended on the size of the model. The Missouri's superstructure was mostly printwood to be cut and stacked bread and butter fashion. As the relative scale increased the superstructure became a mix of blocks cut to plan and printwood for smaller parts. Paper card was used for smaller parts or such things as the AA tubs.
I have checked the plans against photos and other plans, and they are quite accurate.
I have built model ships as well as airplanes all my life, and the most common wooden ship kits were Strombecker, Ideal, Comet, and Monogram. Strombecker was the least accurate, but still built up into a good looking model. Ideal models varied as to accuracy with simplified superstructure, and the unfortunate pressed wood hulls. The models originally didn't have the press wood hulls but a shaped balsa hull. I'm sure they went to the press wood for cost reasons. The pressed wood hulls were bad because Ideal made a generic hull for each of the kit size ranges so the hull for the SS Normandie would be the same as the hull for the U.S.S. Wasp. Also the hull material was very hard, and difficult to work, unless you had a Dremel type tool. In the sixth grade the Dremel was out of my reach. Nonetheless they made a good looking model with much more detail than Strombecker, and could easily be improved. Comet made models which were more or less balsa versions of Strombecker, at least as to philosophy; a simple model with a pleasing outline, but not necessarily accurate, but again because of balsa they could be made more accurate with a little work. Monogram's ships came out very near the end of WW2, and they intended them to be accurate, and they were. Monogram seemed to be experimenting with different types of model lines, as they had ships, Speedibuilt, CO2 powered, and control line models at the same time.