Does any newbie want to join me in making a P-40 from the gallery plans? I will do a tutorial similar to the Spitfire one if anybody is interested. A good chance to do your first or second model. At 1/72 scale, the Warhawk/Kittyhawk/Tomahawk will not take up much space nor time and will get you started in a new and fascinating hobby.
Lou
P.S. For Ray and Garet - I thought we had a P-40 cook-up somewhere but I cannot find it. Maybe it was on the old site?
P.S. to the P.S. Other P-40s found in the gallery. I apologize if I missed someone.
Garet's P-40 1/72
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_1786102224_b5481a2960_b.jpg)
Will's P-40 1/72
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_IMG_2314.JPG)
Pete's P-40 Box Scale
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/P_40_Kittyhawk~0.JPG)
Lou's P-40 1/144
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF2633.JPG)
Brett's P-40
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_P40d~0.jpg)
Ray's accompanying comments
This Little P-40 was built from the Guillows plan you see in the image. It is the first aircraft plan ever posted on the SMM site. It is a plan of the Prototype P-40. It was also the 1st build the group did and the 1st model from that build. The coloration was inspired by the Flying Aces cover in the image from Kenny Horne's site. Brett sent me the model all the way from Australia as a gift. The woodgrain shows through the finish and it is as smooth as glass. Thankyou Brett, RFB
Kenny Horne's P-40
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/Kenny_Horne_Collection_021.jpg)
It was the very first SMM cook-up Lou. I think there are several different drawings in the gallery. http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pid=351#top_display_media (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pid=351#top_display_media)
Hey Lou, I'm up for it! I won't be able to start until next week. I promised myself not to start anything else until the Spit is done. Which should be by Monday.
Peter
That is fine with me Peter. I have a Harvard and a Corsair to finish myself. They should be done by end of next week also.
Lou
There are three plans in the archive,we have-
A guillows drawing of the P-40.
An original ID model plan,good fun to replicate that.
And one by a company called 'Enterprise'
I will tag along to join in the fun if thats OK.
Barry.
Glad to have you along Barry! I also have a plan of a P40E from Model Airplane News. Its the same as the ID model I think.
Peter
Although I can detect inaccuracies in each drawing I am going to do a period build as per whatever plan is used,information was not forthcoming in wartime and it was only later on that drawings became really accurate.
Which plan do you intend using Lou ?
Barry.
I kind of like the ID model inaccuracies. It's what makes them unique.
Peter
I will be using the ID plans from the gallery.
Lou
I'll be using the ID plans as well. But I'll be painting it up instead of leaving it plane black.
Peter
Peter, I call mine ID +. The plus is for paint and decals.
Lou
Well ID+ it is for me then too! The black just looks to unfinished to me.
Peter
Peter,quite a few original ID models finished originally in that all black coating got customised,keen aircraft recognition instructors would add propeller discs,undercarriage legs and add RAF cockades as they were called back then,after WW2 thousands of surplus ID models turned up in F.W.Woolworths and sold for three old pence each for fighters and six old pence for twins,even later than this army surplus shops sold them by the bucket full,I wonder where they all went to ?
So even if you do not paint your model now in full regalia it can easily be done at a later date,the black primer makes for an ideal base coat.
Barry.
I like using the solid black because it really accentuates the carving as well as the contours of the various aircraft. When I get a little better at handling the wood, I would like to do some in bare wood with a clear finish. Also, the historical aspect of the recognition model program fascinates me, so it is a real pleasure to get a chance to take part in the project, 67 years after the fact. ;) Thanks to Garet, Ray and Ken Horne for posting all of the ID series here on SMM. I managed to print the entire collection in full size into a three ring binder, over two hundred pages worth.
Thanks Barry that's very interesting. Now if I could just go back in time and grab a couple of buckets of planes! I will maybe keep some black.
Peter
I agree with you Dave the ID model program is fascinating and seems to be for the most part a forgotten part of history.
Hi, Guys, I tried to upload a solid plan for the XP-40. It was a TIFF file but the thumbnail came up as a holiday photo - not mine either! If you click the thumbnail the proper plan comes up. I think I've now deleted that version and reloaded as a JPG along with an early P-40 plan (Tomahawk in UK service).
I like the XP-40 in its early guise with the ventral bathtub radiator, though this plan is pretty ropey. There are 2 different contemporary rubber powered plans i've seen, one with a built up and one with hollow carved solid fuselage.
Will
It is because it is a TIFF file Will,go for jpeg every time,TIFF's are unstable and not accepted by many systems,did you see my XP-40 upload recently ?
Barry.
It is showing now fine Will,the Warhawk as used by the RAF used a long ventral radiator for cooling overseas in desert conditions.
Barry.
Quote from: Balsabasher on January 21, 2011, 01:50:56 PM
It is because it is a TIFF file Will,go for jpeg every time,TIFF's are unstable and not accepted by many systems,did you see my XP-40 upload recently ?
Barry.
Yes I've discovered the Tiff problem now.
The drawing you'd uploaded was titled on the sheet as the XP-37 (which also appears in my book) but that had a turbo-supercharger (ie exhaust driven) and an incredibly long bonnet with the cockpit set back a la GB racer. The XP-37 you uploaded looks more like the XP-40 with the turbo intake planted on the side - I will upload a proper XP-37 drawing in due time (back to work now!). Curtiss gave the XP-37 the old "heave-ho" as the "ordinary" supercharger-engined XP-40 was faster (after they moved the radiator to the front so it actually did some cooling!). Later the RAF discovered that the plane wouldn't "go" much at high level (as the USAAC specification was for good lower altitude performance than turned out to be necessary for WW2 interception / combat) so famously used them for ground attack in the Western Desert.
Will
Yes Will I thought that early XP-37 would make a good subject to sit alongside the P-40,come to think of it I think I built one of these a few years ago finished in prototype silver with stars and bars,I would love to see your own plan of this early machine when you get around to placing it in the gallery.
Barry.
Will,
I noticed one of your P-40 drawings looks identical to one I found on the web and posted here http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pid=3248#top_display_media (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pid=3248#top_display_media). It was part of an advertisement or collector card. Do you happen to know what book it came from? I always wondered about that drawing.
Quote from: dave_t on January 21, 2011, 05:17:09 PM
Will,
I noticed one of your P-40 drawings looks identical to one I found on the web and posted here http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pid=3248#top_display_media (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pid=3248#top_display_media). It was part of an advertisement or collector card. Do you happen to know what book it came from? I always wondered about that drawing.
Dave,
I searched the archive and found the "Shea's" plan you refer to - it does look very similar, especially the ultra thick wing roots. I assume the UK magazine plan drafters would reuse any info they could get hold of, especially for the "glamorous" US types. Certainly the US mags came over and maybe any colleagues or aquaintances visiting the US would have been told to grab anything they could.
The plans I uploaded come from the 1940 and 1942 editions of C.A.H. Pollitt's "Scale Plans of Military Aircraft". The 1940 drawings are fat-lined and very odd shapes, the 1942 edition has redrawn versions which are better quality and more accurate, but unfortunately my copy is missing most of the larger (2 engined) types. The 1940 edition has lots more advertising for kits (which I've previously uploaded). I will upload some more of the 1940 versions, but they are more for fun I would say, as in the "worst spitfire plan ever" I uploaded some time ago. The books were published by Harborough who later published "Aircraft of the Fighting Powers" - I've read the first edition of volume 1 has the similar fat lined drawings but later editions of that first volume are similarly better drafted.
Will
Yes those strange drawings with thick lines,never quite understood why ? the draughting team of O.G.Thetford were mentioned in one issue of the wartime 'Aeromodeller' with a team of women tracers,the seeds were sown for the series of 'Aircraft of the Fighting Powers' with the final volumes of good quality images,I managed to get the last two as reprints when Alan Hall offered them for £5 each,a real bargain.
C.A.H.Pollitt did a fair few rubber flying scale jobs for the Aeromodeller with similar thick lines that you describe Will,I wonder if it was something to do with reproduction techniques at that time ?
Barry.
I haven't looked into what type of outfit Shea's is yet, but the remark about building 500,000 models refers to the ID model project putting it in the 1942-43 range, so maybe they copied the drawing from Pollitt's book. It is definitely not part of the official model program, but maybe something Shea's put together on their own.
My earlier link changed for some reason. This is the pic-http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_P-40.gif (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_P-40.gif)
Peter, are we ready to proceed?
Lou
Let the build begin! (Cue the fanfare of trumpets). Photos of the Spitfire will be posted tonight.
Hi Lou,
I have roughed out the fuselage and the wing.
(http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy273/pdwmcdonald/Solid%20Models/IMG00029-20110125-1200.jpg)
(http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy273/pdwmcdonald/Solid%20Models/IMG00028-20110125-1159.jpg)
(http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy273/pdwmcdonald/Solid%20Models/IMG00022-20110125-1157.jpg)
Peter, you are well ahead of the curve on this one. Care should be taken when cutting the blocks. When you wrap the drawing around the wood it shortens the length of the block. Looking at your fuselage top you must have noticed that the drawing did not reach all the way to the end. How do you post your pictures? I noticed that a previous post your picture disappeared from the site. If you link your picture from another site and that site somehow deletes the picture it will remove the picture from the SMM post.
For my start, here is the shingle I used to make my parts. It is rough but the grain is not to bad. The blocks were cut out and the fuselage piece glued to get the correct thickness. The rest is just like you have done. I prefer to use a chisel for a lot of my work. I made a bench hook based on one that Dave had shown me. It work wonders in controlling small pieces.
Hi Lou,
I got a jump start on the plane because it will be impossible for me to keep up once real life kicks in (which is in about 10 minutes). The templates were stuck on the wood for the photos only, so far their the right size, of course that may change ::) I might try a chisel this time around and see how it works for me. I have know idea about the disappearing photos?
Peter
From now on I will attempt to place photos with text.
P-40 Tail group Construction.
Main Wing
Mark off 1/3 of the main wing as per the top photo. This should coincided with the thickest part of the wing so check the template. Place another line approx 1/8 of an inch from the leading edge. Place another line on the front face of the wing approx 1/16 inch from the bottom. remove the material between the top and front line and round off the wing to match the template. Remember to take it slow and not to take too much off at once. I have scrapped many a piece by hurrying.
Do the same at the rear of the wing but instead of 1/16 inch leave just 1/32 inch and watch the blade as the wing will be pretty thin at this point. I prefer to use a wide blade such as a chisel or the blade from a planer. Once shaved done to your satisfaction sand the rest to fit the saddle in the fuselage.
You may have noticed I skipped the fuselage cutting. Here it is. I use my chisel to remove the big chucks. The use of a knife works as well blade. The third photo i used a no 11 blade to get close in to make the cutout for the wing. A bigger blade is awkward in this area. Note the wing is not shaped in this photo. I should have given you the fuselage first. Sorry!!! Just checking if you are paying attention!
Bits and pieces are next. Use scrap and if you mess one up, just get another piece of scrap. The undercarriage blisters are the fourth pair for me. I usually cut several of the small pieces and use the one that fits best. I have two top fuselage scoops of different sizes. I will sand until I get the desired effect, but that is another post. I have gone so far and will be working on other projects for a few days. Let me know when you catch up.
Lou
Dave, I cannot find a picture of your P-40. Would you send me one?
Barry, looking at your drawings you are doing a P-40B Tomahawk/Warhawk.
Peter, how are things coming along?
Lou
Please note I added Brett's and Kenny's P-40 to the first post of this thread.
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/SMF/index.php?topic=688.0
Yes Lou it is a P-40 Warhawk done from a very similar plan in 'Aircraft of The Fighting Powers' the plan just happened to be handy in my workshop at the time,I thought that by tagging along with a balsa example it would be interesting for Peter to compare techniqes,as you can see one has a hollowed cockpit and I used the plug to mould a canopy for that one,the other will be finished as a black ID and may be converted/painted one day to go along with your excellent ID Plus idea.
Having built quite a few plastic models of the P-40 I have to say that this one is more fun than any of those,the satisfaction of carving just cannot be beaten but I know that I am preaching to the converted Lou !
I need to make the undercarriage fairings and radiator fairing next to fit into place as you have done on your model.
Barry.
Hi Lou,
I have the wing to about where you are. I am going to make the tail tomorrow. Then I will work on the fuselage. One thing I learned from the Spitfire, was that I was to timid when carving the fuselage, especially around the cockpit area. So that is one of the areas I'll be watching on the P-40. I'll post a photo tomorrow.
Peter
Spinner and front fuselage.
The rear fuselage was tapered as per the drawing. followed by adding lines to facilitate the center/rear fuselage shaping. Draw a line where the thickest part of the upper half of the fuselage. I don't have a picture, but I next drew two lines on top the width of the center windcreen piece. I then removed the material to shape the fuselage. Next round and smooth things out. Replace the canopy lines for later.
Lou:
I notice that you use a chisel a lot in your work. Do you ever work with a plane? I have several little model-maker's-sized planes and a little razor plane that I find work well for me. I'm not so good with a chisel...
I have a small and medium size plane but prefer to use a chisel.
Lou
The spinner is carved as part of the fuselage. Run your blade around the spinner and carefully remove material until it is rounded. Finish off by sanding.
I'm really enjoying the build discussion and photos. Thank you for taking the time to explain each step.
Garet
Let's take a break from the fuselage and set up the dihedral on the wings. When measured the guide tell us that we need to elevate the wing tips exactly 1cm. Small blocks were used to do this. When cutting the wing center portion try not to cut all the way through as even a slight amount of wood left will make the joint stronger.
Back to the fuselage. Bevel the front of the air intake slightly. This is not shown in the plans. Mark off the bottom area as per usual removing a small amount of wood at a time. Sand the lower front fuselage to the desire contour. The plan template for the front of the intake is misleading so I did not use it but did this method instead.
Lower rear fuselage next. Mark off the corners and remove small amounts until you have the desired shape. Sand off to get that rounded look. I used some black tape pieces to check the contour. You can use the templates also at this point.
Hi Lou,
As always I am way behind your plane . The good news is, I have four days off next week so I should hopefully catch up by next Friday.
Peter
I like the tape idea Lou,another method I use is to run a steel rule along the edge and observe the shadow to see the shape either side of the fuselage,you can use this method on aerofoils as well.
Barry.
Bits and pieces. The undercarriage covers go one rough and will be sanded in place. Note that they will blend into the wing at the top front.
Round off the front of the undercarriage covers (I used a bit of wood filler here) and make the bottom body pan. Note that the body pan extends slight past the trailing edge of the wing.
Next apply the contour to the tail feathers. I mark a line approx 3/16 of an inch in and bevel the surface to form the airfoil shape. The tail pieces are just held in place for show.
Next came the top engine scoop. I carved it roughly to size and will sand it down once glued. Just attempt to make a good mating surface between it and the fuselage. I then glued the main and tail planes and ensured they were aligned correctly. Once dry I attached the fillets. I cut then down from the plans. That is one area I have yet to figure out how they do it with a one piece affair.
Once everything is aligned and dry attach the vertical tail. I use Elmer's wood filler in a tube, Garet has it in a tin so look around for it. I use a wet paint brush handle to form the fillet between the wing and the fuselage. Once dry, sand smooth by wrapping sandpaper around the same brush handle. Place a small amount of putty around the tail end to smooth the transition from the surfaces to the fuselage. It takes just a bit and make things look complete.
PS The P-40K was purchased for a mere $2.00 at the Cold Lake liquidation store. I was lucky to go in just when the clerk was placing it on the shelf. But that is another story.
The exhaust stacks is just a notched piece of scrap. The one shown in the plans is legit, but not often used in the field. Using a sharp blade, just do small notches with the rear of the exhaust pipe being 90 degrees to the fuselage side and the front angle 45 degrees. A coat of primer followed and some more sanding. I then sprayed Krylon Italian Olive. The guns are not part of the plans. I made small V cuts in the leading edge of the wing and cut the rods to match the indent followed by super glue. A bit of putty on the tip of my Exacto blade fixed the gaps. Now if this was Dave, we would have no gaps. Once the glue is set, I used a nail clipper to cut the barrels down to size. I made several attempts before they finally came out half decent. I have a colour profile I wish to use to paint the model, however I cannot find a good rendition of the decorations used on the side of the aircraft.
I really like that Green colour Lou,my own Warhawk received the undercarriage fairings and other small pieces today,your tutorial has been a real pleasure to follow.
Barry.
I applied light brown this morning and will wait until it is really dry before removing the mask. A constant problem for me. The waiting! Give us some picture Barry.
Lou
P.S. Peter, would love to see some pictures if you have them.
Lou,
Nice model! How did you do the cockpit framing?
I like the way you cut the exhaust to show the individual exhausts. The ID plan shows an unshaped piece, which is what I did with my model, but I always wish I'd shaped it (it was my first solid model since boyhood, so I wasn't up to the technique required at the time).
I did shape my Spitfire's exhaust (both models I made).
Garet
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10005/normal_ASSEMBLY_OF_P-40_MODELS.JPG
They are already in the album Lou,go here and shunt back and forward to see the build pictures.
Barry.
Garet, the canopy framing is strips of masking tape. I neglected to mention that in my assembly instructions.
Lou
I am taking the liberty of posting Barry's build photo directly to this post.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10005/normal_PLAN_VIEW_TEMPLATE.JPG)
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10005/normal_TOMAHAWK_PARTS.JPG)
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10005/normal_BLANKS.JPG)
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10005/normal_CLOSE_UP_PARTS_CARVED.JPG)
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10005/normal_A_SOLID_IS_BORN.JPG)
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10005/normal_ASSEMBLY_OF_P-40_MODELS.JPG)
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10005/normal_P40_FAIRING_1.JPG)
Well, as usual my progress is slow but, I'm enjoying myself. The fuselage is better on the P-40 than my spitfire. I'm really happy with the way my flaps came out I used a parting tool from Lee Valley. I also used the same tool on the cockpit lines.
(http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy273/pdwmcdonald/Solid%20Models/P40e.jpg)
(http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy273/pdwmcdonald/Solid%20Models/P40d.jpg)
(http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy273/pdwmcdonald/Solid%20Models/P40c.jpg)
(http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy273/pdwmcdonald/Solid%20Models/P40a.jpg)
The tail is next then the fiddly bits last.
Peter
You are learning fast Peter,scoring lines into those ailerons ( flaps are underneath the wing,just a correction ) and marking the cockpit outline as you have is no easy task,you can paint the overall cockpit with your chosen colour ( I use silver with a bit of blue added )and fill the lines with paint and rub off the surplus with a cloth,another way is to buy an artists 'oil bar' which is paint in stick form and rub that into the lines for the framing.
Your progress as a solid modeller is excellent and you can be proud of what you have achieved both with your Spitfire and the P-40.
Barry.
Your carving is fantastic Peter. I normally don't do my ailerons or other control surfaces, but you seem to have mastered that skill. I never did learn how to get the scribing of cockpit glass. I can see a great future for you in this hobby. Thanks for the pictures.
Lou
I don't like the current colours, so sanding and repainting is in order. I need darker colours to do the AVG version. The decals are home made as usual.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF4065.JPG)
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF4070.JPG)
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF4072.JPG)
Thanks Barry and Lou for your kind and encouraging words. I'm definitely enjoying myself! Now I just have to get my sons interested. Although girls are more interesting. I will hopefully get more done and photos posted next week.
Peter
The P-40E in AVG colours circa April/May 1942. Flying Tiger decals were printed on white and the edges painted to blend.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF4121.JPG) (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF4122.JPG)
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF4123.JPG) (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF4120.JPG)
Which one is next then Lou ! knives at the ready.
Barry.
My photos have disappeared again, so I will try to repost them.
Peter
I still see your original pictures in the 12 Feb post. I know we are having problems with the attachment feature but that should not cause your photo to disappear. Keep an eye and it it happens again send an email to Garet or Ray.
Lou
Any progress on your Warhawk?
Lou
Progress yes, photos no................I will take some on the weekend hopefully. The tail is finished and came out pretty good. The wheel things for the wings are giving me a bit of a challenge. :'(
Peter
Time to check up on your progress Peter. I hope to see some new pictures.
Lou
Hi Lou,
Sorry for my late reply. I am out of town right now on a business trip. I'll post the update photos when I get back on the weekend.
Peter
Hi Lou and Barry,
Here are a few photos of the P-40. It looks better now, than it does in these photos. The wood filler has been applied and I'm in the middle of sanding and sanding and more sanding!
Coming along great Peter. You have the knack.
Lou
Peter,I am proud of you,your solid is just great and you are a natural carver,keep up the practise.
Barry.
How is it going Peter?
Lou
Hi Lou,
I'll post photos next week. I'm off to Seattle for the weekend to visit Boeing Field, Museum and the Boeing plant.
Peter
Peter, how are things. I see your name being on line as I type this. Do you have any pictures to share?
Lou
Hi Lou, actually I have been posting all this from work. I promise to post photos as soon as I have something photo worthy. I did have a nice surprise today before work my wife bought me a scroll saw for our wedding anniversary. So that will make the first steps of building future projects go smoother.
Peter
I hope you got her something nice also. You will be able to do lots of things easier now.
Lou
She's getting a girls trip to Las Vegas. Which means when she's away the chips will be flying!
Peter
Here some photos of my primed P-40. I have decided to try my hand at an ID+. Hopefully it will be done next week.
Nice work Peter. The control surfaces and cockpit lines really sets it off.
Lou
Good work Peter,you are a natural for working with Solids,keep it going.
Barry.
Hi Peter, how is the new hobby working out. We have not heard from you in abit. I saw you were on line the other day but did not see you post anything.
Lou
P.S. Just think of me as the truant officer.
Hi Lou,
I don't think of you as a truant officer. I think of you more as an Air Marshal. Actually if it wasn't for you I still would be thinking about building my first model instead of being on my second. The P-40 is about 90% painted. I have tried to find suitable decals at the local hobby shops but with know luck. So I am going to experiment with making them out of paper. I also have a cool idea for a stand. I'll post photos on Monday it should be be finished by then.
Peter
So I didn't get it finished as planned again..................but here some photos of where I am.
Looks great Peter. You have a future in model building.
Lou
:DThanks Lou, I just can't believe how long its taken me to get it to this point. I think I need to take a time management course or win a lottery.
Peter
Great work Peter,you really have done well with this project,many wil have taken years to get to this stage,you have really grasped what it is all about and we are really proud of you.
Barry.
A fairly complicated subject for a first attempt at carving a plane. It turned out well!
First time always takes a long time. If you are like me, you spend time thinking about how you will get something done instead of doing it. As you develop your skill set, many of these delays will go away. Keep building a few of the simple ID models, try to do something new with each one, and you will have the skill set to rip through these things like Lou and Barry. Look over your model and critically evaluate it. Don't look at any shortcoming as a failure but an opportunity to improve. Identify a couple of areas you want to do better next time and your work will steadily get better.
Right now, it still takes me about 40 hours to complete an ID type model. Carving and building goes quite quickly now, but I spend more time in painting in greater detail, though I am painting most everything and not using many decals.
Cheap materials, cheap paint, the enjoyment of craftsmanship, gotta love these models.
Ken Pugh
Well said Ken,and there is nothing better than seeing a newbie builder succeed,we all get a real buzz from that because it is another one that has joined the ranks to keep solid models alive.
Barry.
Thanks Ken for sage like words of encouragement. You, Lou, Barry, Cliff and everyone else in this forum have made it much easier to enter this hobby without feeling so overwhelmed. I agree with you about thinking about hobbies more than actually doing them. If I spent less time oohing and awing over photos in the gallery and more time building I would have a squadron by now :-) I agree with you about the critical eye. I have already have a list of things I'll do differently next time.
Peter
It's probably true that one can spend too much time just thinking about how to build a model or to solve a construction problem - I'm obviously a prime example of that - but that's most of the fun in scratch building isn't it? One example is to build a tail wheel for a Mosquito in 1/96th scale so that the wheel will rotate and it's visible when in the flying mode but is even more visible when the aircraft (model) is on the deck.
While walking in the park I often think up the solution to a planning delemma only to find when I get home that the model's size precludes my brilliant solution!
Cliff
Cliff I think the solution and problem solving is why this type of model building is so much fun,it never ceses to amaze me when looking at ideas on this forum why I had not thought of a particular solution to a problem before ? it is all about shapes large and small and applying what knowledge and available materials we have in making those parts in miniature.
Like all skills after a while a definate feel is there for your subject, and just as I paint my pictures when you get a real sense of things going well with the colours,that is when the buzz factor comes into play ! difficult to describe but I think you know what I mean.
Barry.
Just checking in Peter. We have not forgotten you.
Lou
Hi Lou,
I don't feel forgotten, the P-40 is finished, photos will be posted when my lazy brother returns my camera!! I've planned out how I'm going to make my basswood egg, space ship. The templates, fuselage and wings have been roughed up for the Klings Racer but I'm nervous about that one. My tug boat with a solid basswood hull is nearing completeion. I'm also teaching one of my teenage sons how to build a Fiddlersgreen card model of a Piper Cub. The Fiddlersgreen card models would make very nice templates for solids.
Photos soon (maybe I should start my own board ??? )
Peter
Ray or Garet, please set up a board for Peter.
Lou
Well better really, really, really late than never! Here is my ID+ P-40 Warhawk. I still haven't quite figured what to do for the stand yet. Thank you all for your advice and support.
Peter
Peter it is a little beauty,those Chinese Nationalist markings really set it off,top job.
Barry.
Excellent build Peter. You can be very proud of your accomplishment. As to a stand, throw a coat of varnish on what you are using now and there you have it. Have a look at the gallery and you will find all sorts of stands to choose from. Again, congratulations on a superb P-40 Warhawk.
Lou
Nicely done, Peter. There's nothing wrong with the stand you have right there. I like using a straight post with the small 1/72 fighters. Makes them look like the models used on plots for the generals during a battle. Another idea for the base is to make it round and paint it like the wing markings.
Ken Pugh
A very simple stand can be made with just a length of wire and 3 bends. The wire stands use very little "real estate" on shelf displays. Here I have 1/72 scale Airfix Spitfire and WW2 vintage ID+ P-47 flying over a WW2 vintage solid Stuka. The figures are repainted Skybirds castings.
Mark
Thats a very nice Percival Proctor bottom left.
Barry.
Thank you all for your kind words and stand suggestions. Of course the stand might take me 7 months to finish!!
Peter
I think your P-40 looks great Peter, I have to admire your recessed ailerons and canopy framing on only your second model?. I am chomping at the bit to get on with my Hawk, but I have so much going on at the moment It's frustrating. Regards Paul.
Any more P-40s out there?
I was at Michael's craftstore with the wife and they had a display of collages which gave me the idea of using my ID+ P-40 for a Flying Tigers tribute collage.
Peter
I love it! :D
The P-40F is on my short list.
Excellent display Peter.
Lou
Lou,
I just noticed in your P-40 collage that you identified the profile P-40 as mine, but I haven't build that style P-40. My only P-40 is the ID model shown in your collage. Perhaps the profile model was Kenny Hornes?
Garet
I believe you are correct. I will redo it. Now I am working on the 2012 collage.
Lou
Just an FYI - that P-40 of mine (Ryan's) is actually in 1/72 scale and I gave it to my sister. It's probably still there somewhere.
Hello Ryan. It has been quite a while. What are you to these days? I will attempt to find the collage photo and change the scale on your P-40.
Lou
A bit if nostalgia from SMM.
A quote from Ray:
This is THE first model built from the FIRST plan posted on the old SMM page. Brett sent it to me and it now stands on the top of my entertainment center, has for the last 15 years, made from unknown wood found in the Outback of Australia. It is as smooth as glass and uses paper decals as well as wood burnings for the dark panel lines. It is now mounted on a red, white and blue shield that has SMM in large letters on it. Just like the shield you see in the magazine cover. The plan is in the gallery under Guillows
Lou
In searching about I found a couple of additional P-40s. Also corrections are needed in the above collage. The P-40 profile model belongs to Kenny H and Ryan's model is 1/72 scale.
Lou
Nice P-40 poster, Lou! That model was the first solid I build, and in researching how to paint it, I discovered Ray's SMM site.
Garet
Don't forget Fingers! The ID P-40 was one of the first solids I ever built.
Very nice fingers. This is the my first time seeing this gorgeous model. I can't find any details posted. Please describe details of this project.
Lou
Oh, my. That was several years ago. I think it might have been only the second solid model I ever attempted, the Spitfire being the first. I'd seen that by-now-familiar picture of the "sandwich" Typhoon and thought, "I ought to try that". So I did. I guess it was what you'd call a "qualified success". The woods used were sheet basswood, walnut and mahogany, laminated together, and some scraps of ebony turned on the Dremel for wheels (see photo). Everything carved up nicely, but I also learned the value of ensuring that you spread the glue thoroughly and not leave any voids between layers. Notice that I failed to do so on the starboard wing, which made the basswood patch come out "fuzzy" around the edges. Live and learn...The stand I made for it was awful and was subsequently scrapped and replaced.
Hi, I'd like to build your P-40. I have the ID plans from WW2.
This will be my 2nd carved airplane.
Jimmy D [Canada]
Jimmy, firstly, welcome and second please post a photo of your first build.
Fingers, looks like you need to do a tutorial.
Lou
Laying the different woods certainly takes things to the next level of craftsmanship. I'd certainly enjoy a tutorial if Fingers or another Member would like to show us how it is accomplished and the process for selecting and layering the woods.
Amazing work!! - ken
"looks like you need to do a tutorial."
I guess I could do something along those lines. It'd have to be pretty simple, though; I've got a lot of things on my plate just now, so I don't really have the time to do a new P-40 "build", with lots of photos and all... However, I do have some pix I took of the B-24 and especially the PBY under construction, which might prove useful to somebody who's just coming to this topic. I could add some comments about doing the different laminations, and they might provide the basis for some interesting discussion.
Would you want to do that as a continuation of this thread, here? Or take it someplace else?
If you will send me your photo I will see what I can whip up, however my workshop is half way through a move with no end in clear sight. Perhaps a few words on how you laminate the wood will suffice for now and once I have my things in order I will make a tutorial.
Lou
Well, the lamination process is no great mystery. What I try to do is create a contrast wherever possible: I cut same-size pieces of wood in different thicknesses, stack them together either horizontally or vertically, depending upon what I think works best, then arrange and rearrange the layers in various combinations until I get the kind of effect I'm looking for.
Midwest Products (http://midwestproducts.com/collections/hardwoods) sells a variety of hardwoods in thicknesses ranging from 1/16" to 1/4". I mostly use basswood, walnut, mahogany and cherry, although they offer other kinds (yellowheart, purpleheart, zebrawood, etc.) as well.
For fuselages on large aeroplanes, like the B-24, I like to stack them horizontally, like this (See "B-24D Block")
That way, when you cut out the shape, you get a kind of sense of horizontal motion...(See: "First sanding")
This can be enhanced by positioning your thicker layers toward the bottom, and thinner layers at the top. Notice also that each layer is partitioned by a very thin layer (1/16" in this case) of contrasting tone...the lightest light offsetting the darkest dark. In school they taught us that painters and artists call this "chiaroscuro"...
In fighter planes like the P-40 and aircraft with long, thin fuselages, I'll often stack the layers vertically. This enhances the rakish lines of the plane's fuselage, and when you sand it down to a tapered end, it also creates some interesting "sandwich slices" along the sides...It also looks cool viewed from dead ahead...
Wings are usually pretty much the same: a three-piece sandwich. Sometimes with light-colored tops and bottoms (basswood) around a dark middle slice of walnut. Sometimes the top and bottom are thinner slices and the center slice slightly thicker, so when you sand the edges rounded at the front and thin at the trailing edge, you can get a nice broad dark border edge all the way 'round...
With the Corsair, however, I had a special piece of maple with a dark streak through it that I wanted to use on the top of the wing. I laminated a sheet of slightly darker cherry to the bottom for contrast...
And with the Sikorsky, I happened to have a special piece of walnut with a beautiful light-colored edge, which cried out to be used as a wing...
I laminated the fuselage with two thick walnut center layers composed 1/4" walnut bands, offset by thinner basswood layers, and an extra dark walnut bottom layer. This enhanced the boat-like shape of the hull. The top of the fuselage has a thin layer of mahogany or cherry between basswood strips, suggesting a canopy-like shape.
Lastly, a word on laminating. I just glue all the pieces together, clamp be-jeezis out of it and let it dry. Kinda like this:
BUT...as I learned from the P-40, you have to use a straight-edge spreader and spread the glue thoroughly across the entire surface, being sure NOT to leave any voids in the glue. This is very important, because anyplace there's an open pocket or void in the glue will result in a spot where the two pieces of wood aren't bonded together. And if it should happen that you cut and sand down through that void, you'll wind up with a nasty looking little spot where the surface isn't uniform, like this (notice the right wing surface?)...
So, how'd I do, Lou?
Thank you Jim. This gives excellence guidance to those wanting to do laminated models.
Lou
Jim - I agree with Lou. A splendid job in explaining the thought process for assembling the laminations along with some great examples. Once I get a couple of models off the workbench, I'll have to try a laminated model
Thanks for taking the time to run through the details.
-ken
The pleasure's all mine.
jim
Thanks for the run through Jim, I take it you have to use a poly adhesive when gluing the hardwood sandwich? Regards Paul J .
I came across a couple of pages on the web related to laminating and veneering. Thought I'd add them to the thread as reference.
Veneering
http://www.doxaerie.com/studio.htm
Laminating
http://www.doxaerie.com/galleryii.htm
I have surfed there many times. A beautiful site but the talent required is beyond my skill level.
Lou
I take it you have to use a poly adhesive when gluing the hardwood sandwich?
Nah, just plain old Elmer's Glue or Titebond wood glue. Clamp it nice and tight all the way around. Sometimes I'll put it in a vise. Wings are a bit trickier, because if you don't get them clamped or weighted evenly, they can warp. I have a couple 1 x 3 x 5 heavy steel weights, like machinist's stock, that I use on the wing planks. But clamping the wing lams between two wooden planks or blocks, maybe with wax paper on top and bottom to keep it from sticking to the blocks, would probably work fine, too.
Laminating
http://www.doxaerie.com/galleryii.htm
Yes, the Typhoon model on this site is where I got the idea from. There's some really nice pictures of that there...
Thanks Jim, regards Paul J.
This is the only picture I have [I have removed my grandson from the photo]
Love your Spitfire model. Looks big, what scale is it? What drawings did you use?
Lou
HI you talk about scale a lot and it seems you keep the airplanes small. I have a lot of wood so I enlarge the plans a bit.
The Spitfire look to be about 1/24 of bigger. If the model is made fit a particular space or kept within certain dimension due to storage requirement I call those box scale. I the early days of plastic models, the model was scaled to fit a particular size box. hence box scale. What is the wing span of your Spitfire. I float from scale to scale depending on the project.
Lou
The spitfire wing span is 16" in large from ww2 identification plans The P-40 wing span is12". I am in the process of sanding the P-40 now it looks like a toy not a model. I need better plans. I belonged to a carving club they frowned on airplanes so I moved on. jimmyd
The ID plans work out great at 1/72 scale or smaller but they were not known for their accuracy. I want to do a 1/32 scale RCAF P-40B shortly. There are many links on better drawings at http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/SMF/index.php?topic=594.msg4066#msg4066
I will probably use the attached drawing for mine. I found this on the first link on the post under c for Curtis.
(http://atallguy.com/Simple-Multi-View-Plans/C-images/p40b_3v.jpg)
Lou
PS Your Spitfire works out to 1/27 scale
In particular, the shroud on the bottom of the fuselage of the P-40 ID model plans is nowhere near scale. I went to a local air museum and got as close as I could to one to try to estimate the shape of the scale one.