Solid Model Memories.net

Ongoing Cook-ups & Tutorials => Cook-ups and Group Builds => Topic started by: Kenny Horne on February 24, 2008, 07:49:59 AM

Title: WWII ID Models
Post by: Kenny Horne on February 24, 2008, 07:49:59 AM
Hey Gang,

well after looking at all of these plans once again, there is no way that I won't soon be building at least a few.  

I propose a Cook-up using these plans as a basis.  The traditional finish is flat black, with only those details included on the drawings to be included.  These requirements are in keeping with the purpose of the models, to be used as training devices by armed forces personelle.  These requirements are really no longer valid  ;) so I'd be fine with any finish chosen by the builder, as well as any added detail as desired.  The only suggestion would be that the finished model should clearly have used the Bureau of Aeronautics plans.  

Personally I will most likely build exactly to plan and finish black.  It's the romantic in me I guess.  I actually like the inacuracies in the plans and the lack of touchy details is of course how I always build.  But to each their own: Vive la difference!

Anyone else?

Kenny
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on February 24, 2008, 12:29:34 PM
You darn well know that I can't resist a challenge at a cook-up. Any specified scale? What where ID model scales?
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Kenny Horne on February 24, 2008, 03:35:00 PM
Welcome aboard Lou,

Originally they were 1/72.  I have built a half dozen or so at 8" wing span (various scales) as gifts, usually unpainted, and I think they look better at this scale (?) but for this one I'm going to stick to 1/72.  I'd be up to see any scale prefered by the builder though.

Let the games begin!

Kenny
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on February 24, 2008, 04:27:01 PM
1/72 scale it is then. Can someone send me the B-25 Michell drawings.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on February 24, 2008, 04:56:46 PM
Lou,

I have the B-25 drawings (on paper), from set E.  I'll scan them and post them in the next day or so.

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on February 24, 2008, 08:15:44 PM
Garet, thanks
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on February 25, 2008, 08:23:07 PM
To all who are interested in this Cook-up, we're in the process of posting the ID model plans.  The plans are being posted as line-art GIF files at 300 dpi.  You may need to use a graphics program that lets you set the dpi so you can print the plans the correct size.

Eventually, Kenny Horne will post PDF versions to his site (where there are a few already), and we'll put some sort of PDF summary here as well.  If you are having trouble printing to the correct size, contact me and I will send you a PDF version of the plan you are interested in, chopped to fit on individual sheets for the larger patterns.

Also, if you see a plane on the list of plans that I haven't posted yet, leave me a message and I will do that one out of order.  Sets B and F are now complete, but I have a lot more that I'm working on.  I've already sent out the raw B-25 scans to Lou.

Kenny has a lot of the plan sets and has been spending a lot of time scanning them in and sending the files to me for some additional processing (such as reassembling the large pattern sheets) and posting.  I have a few sets and have been working on scanning and posting those as well. 

A few people (such as Kenny!) have been having trouble seeing the large pattern sheets in their web browsers, though they can download the final file if they have the url of the file itself.  Please see the ID model discussion in the general section:

http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/SMF/index.php?topic=97.0 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/SMF/index.php?topic=97.0)

Both Kenny and I have wanted to digitize our ID model plan collections for quite a while, and we think it will be neat to have all of them available.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on February 25, 2008, 08:25:24 PM
I have a somewhat modified Spitfire built from ID plans that I plan to paint in accurate colors.  However, I've always wanted an excuse to make a true black ID model.  I've seen so many planes I didn't even know existed (a glider seaplane!?), so I haven't made up my mind yet as to the subject.

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Kenny Horne on February 25, 2008, 10:28:32 PM
Ya Garet,

the seaplane troop glider is cool but at least it did exist, many of the Japanese planes were pure conjection, kinda like when a police artist draws a picture of the bad guy from someone's description. I read where they had the most difficult time finding any references for Russian aircraft.  Those Ruskies are a secretive lot  :)

I know that there were also models of armor and ships.  Does anyone know if they came out as plan sets like the aircraft?  You see them pop up on ebay quite regularly. 

Kenny
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: animek on February 26, 2008, 12:32:38 AM
A huge thanks to all you guys who publish all those plans for us, it is a lot of work I know, and like myself, I am sure a lot of folks here do appreciate your hard work.

Thanks again

Ben
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Kenny Horne on February 26, 2008, 03:16:12 AM
Well, from my small side of the project... you're very welcome Ben!

Garet & I have been working to get this all together and we're a litle ways from completion, but you can check out my site where I've temporarily set up some PDF files.  We'll get it all together in a nice form later, but you might find what you are looking for if you scroll down @
http://www.ualberta.ca/~khorne/solid/spotter/spotter.html (http://www.ualberta.ca/~khorne/solid/spotter/spotter.html)

of course the SSM Gallery is also where you can find more of this stuff in GIFF format.
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/index.php?cat=13 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/index.php?cat=13)

This is still very much a work in progress, so no nice interface but you can get to most of the info.

I really do hope that others will try one for the cook-up.  They are fun simple models that make you feel good about yourself while leaving out all of the tricky bits  :)

Kenny
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: mylittlewoods on March 03, 2008, 05:38:48 AM
Hi guys,I know I'm not as active here but hope I'm still welcome.
This topic of ID models is the whole reason I started this hobby,thanks to Kenny's site and the Smith.It would be nice to get back to where it all started.
You guys have done wonders with the site also thank you.

Mike
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on March 03, 2008, 11:34:32 AM
Welcome Mike, glad to have you aboard. What subject will you be building in the WII ID cook up?
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: mylittlewoods on March 03, 2008, 07:28:31 PM
Hi Lou

First off thanks.It was an easy choice for me,the P-40 for the Flying Tigers,I've always had a lot of respect for them,doing the best they could with what little they had.It was also the first plane I did 7yrs ago,so I'd like to see the improvments I can make.LOL

Mike
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on March 03, 2008, 10:09:31 PM
Mike,

That's the first one I made, too!

I built mine from Model Airplane News ID model plans that had some major problems (such as cross sections that couldn't possibly work) so the Navy ID model plans are better.  The "belly block" may have the wrong profile on the ID plans.  I just checked the plan, and it looks about right (maybe a little too wide) so maybe it was the M.A.N. plan that was wrong.

You'll find lots of inaccuracies on the ID model plans, many of which were based on verbal description or blurry gun-camera photos, and even one or two that didn't exist.  But you always have the option to either "correct" your model or "build to the flawed but historic plan".  You'll find most of the modelers here somewhere in the middle, and refreshingly supportive of whichever way you go.

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: mylittlewoods on March 03, 2008, 10:34:12 PM
Hi Garet

It had to be the teeth.LOL.
That was the thing about WWII nobody really knew what they were doing/up against.The inaccuracies are what they knew.I'll more than likely add too them by the time I'm done.LOL.Thanks for the support,this group is great for that,it helps to know you can mess up alittle and not get beat up about it.It makes it fun to do.

Mike
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on August 22, 2008, 03:00:53 PM
No activity since 03 March. What happened? Mine is still on the to-do list. Anybody else have any progress, lack there-off. Garet, since you painted and detailed your PRY Spitfire it doesn't count for an ID.
Let's hear from everyone who was going to join in. Fall is coming, cold weather, rain, SNOW, and lots of carving.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on August 23, 2008, 10:20:01 PM
I decided to put my blade where my mouth was and I have started a 1/72 Spitfire, done according to the ID plan. I am resisting making changes. It should be done by tomorrow evening except for the paint drying.
Come on guy, wakey wakey, time is a wasting.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: R.F.Bennett on August 24, 2008, 06:12:01 AM
I'm working on a P-40 Lou, But my glue-up split after I did the cut outs.  ???
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on August 24, 2008, 11:02:10 PM
I took just over 14 hours from start to finish including sleep, a nap and three meals, several visits to the food bank(donations) and walking the dogs several times. I used balsa and did not go any smoother than 180 grit paper hence the texture. I used flat black as a primer, sprayed clear gloss and finished it off with a good coat of semi-gloss black acrylic.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF3330.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1639

And if you did not notice I spent at least 60 seconds in making the stand.

Lou
P.S Whose next???? Garet?Kenny?Ray?
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on August 25, 2008, 07:07:36 PM
With a bit more care to sanding and giving it cam paint with decals, one would be hard pressed to tell which one was the ID model.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF3315.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1640
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: R.F.Bennett on August 25, 2008, 07:27:50 PM
Now Lou, would you rather have me working on an ID model or working on the new homepage,  :-*
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on August 25, 2008, 08:39:13 PM
Sigh, I wish there were more hours in the day.

True, Lou, since I detailed the Spitfire, I'll need a new subject.  Fortunately, we have all those plans on the gallery now.  I even have some scrap pine and cedar from the kayak.

The detailing, painting, and decals take up almost 50% of the build time, so a true ID should go pretty quickly.  I'll take a look at the plans again and see what strikes me.

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on August 26, 2008, 12:18:42 AM
Okay, I'm now mulling the following:

Bristol LRQ-1 (plan F1)
I-16 (plan B19)
Mitsubishi 96 (plan B14)

These do seem to fall into my regular pattern of single engine (though the LRQ-1 is a flying-boat glider, so maybe that is a way to ease into a seaplane).

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on August 26, 2008, 02:38:45 PM
Two cook-off in one?? Great way to fill out your group builds.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on August 26, 2008, 05:06:25 PM
Hmm, and the LRQ-1 didn't go into production, so maybe it also qualifies for that several-years old "fictional" group build  :) I'm joking on that one; I think it needs a Bill Barnes plane!

I couldn't decide between the Polikarpov I-16 and the Bristol LRQ-1, so I cut out all the parts for both.

I cut out blanks hand-planed them, then glued on the paper patterns and scroll sawed the top view.  I stuck the cut-offs back on with drops of hot-melt glue before cutting out the side view.  Here are the species:

I-16:
fuselage: spruce
wings, stabilizer, rudder: basswood

LRQ-1:
fuselage, wing fillets: spruce
wings: poplar
stabilizer, rudder: basswood

Since I was working on both, I took the total time and divided by two, which works to 1.25 hours for each so far.  Some of that time was spent trying to figure out which bearing on my scroll saw is going bad.  I'll need to sharpen my chisels and knife before I start carving.  The spruce cut a little rough on the scroll saw, but it is the same stock I used for the PT-9 and parts of the PT-10, and those finished just fine.

Interestingly, the poplar was a quarter-inch thick piece that I bought years ago when I first read on-line that people were still making ID models!  Which were of course Ray, Kenny, Lou, Cliff, and others!

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on August 27, 2008, 04:10:04 PM
I've started the Polikarpov I-16, having rough-carved the fuselage:

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_I-16_Parts.JPG)

http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1645 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1645)

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on August 27, 2008, 10:37:26 PM
As long as you keep building you will get there. I am looking for another quickie for next weekend. I figure if I build my main projects during the week, the ID models will be my break for the weekend?? Seemed logical when I first thought of it.
Besides that, I need more 1/72 solids in my collection. I am up to two now.
Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 01, 2008, 11:36:57 PM
I started at 6:30 PM and it is now 8:30 but I must stop and attend to other duties.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF3459.JPG)
I will finish it next weekend.

Note the fancy stand. Same one I used for the Spitfire.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on September 02, 2008, 06:45:33 AM
Amazing.  I just hit 6 hours on the I-16, and it has only just gotten its wing glued on.

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 02, 2008, 04:01:08 PM
Balsa carves like butter if you use a new blade. So new I cut my thumb and it hurt like hell. Must have gotten some dust in there. It needs to heal before Friday as we start our 08/09 dart season on Friday. I followed the instruction on shaping and cutting the pieces. Seems strange not to change something. I still need to do the exhaust, scoop and stand. See ya!

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on September 02, 2008, 09:15:07 PM
I was beginning to think that the plans had the wrong cowl shape for the I-16, but fortunately, checked the Web and found there were many versions.  I did finally find a photo of the bottom.  I'd been trying to figure out how the gear fit into the bottom of the fuselage.  It turns out the wing is blended into the bottom of the fuselage, making a much more gradual angle than if you don't know that.  It's not that the plans are wrong, it's just that they don't tell the whole story!

I'm also following the instructions, so have been scoring the control surfaces and other details (I did carve out the cowl intakes, which is probably semi-cheating).  I'm not looking forward to scoring in the canopy frames, however! Maybe I can use some of my thin-line tape and paint it all black.

Sorry about the thumb, Lou, and on your throwing hand, too!

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on September 03, 2008, 03:36:54 PM
Here's the latest I-16 photo:

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_Rata_sm.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1683 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1683)

I've since started the wing fillets and fuselage-bottom blending using auto filler putty.  It smells about like Squadron Green putty (it stinks!), but is not as thick and is much less expensive.  I'll let you know how it works out.

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 06, 2008, 08:36:13 PM
Last weekend's ID Model is finally done. I was a bit slow on the take for this one. I have started a KI-59 as a group build in a Yahoo scratch building group. But it is an ID Model but we don't have the drawing??

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF3539.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1723
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: R.F.Bennett on September 07, 2008, 02:01:38 AM
Built as an ID Model  ;D
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 07, 2008, 07:55:07 PM
Mine will be an ID model.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF3555.JPG)
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF3556.JPG)
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF3560.JPG)
It is twin engine transport.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 07, 2008, 08:00:30 PM
Better pictures of the Spitfire and Aircobra.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF3557.JPG)
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF3558.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1732
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1731
I need to set up a photo area just for ID models.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on September 16, 2008, 05:32:48 PM
I-16 is nearly done.  I have primer on the fuselage, with the tail fully installed and primed now.  I need to make a spinner and tail wheel, and sand some putty on the tail-fuselage joints.  Then I need to paint it black.

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Kenny Horne on September 22, 2008, 08:21:18 PM
Great work gentlemen,

Keep posting those pictures!

KennyH
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on September 24, 2008, 12:21:40 AM
Here's the I-16 update:

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_I-16WithSpinnerMed.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1836 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1836)

I've since scribed the gear door outlines and traced out the canopy and other details in pencil, in preparation for scribing.

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 24, 2008, 01:02:33 PM
Looking good.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on September 24, 2008, 05:18:01 PM
Thanks, Lou and Kenny.

I ran into one of those ID plans not working quite right issues.  They have outlines for "gun trough", which are two pieces you glue on just forward of the cockpit.  Unfortunately, the pattern is all wrong for a fuselage built to the patterns, though the three-view shows a flaring cowling that would fit the pattern.

I looked at other three-views and photos of the I-16 and found that there are many, many models, some with flaring cowls, others straight.  I decided to just fudge it and glue on two pieces of carved wood that fit.  After they were glued on, I shaped and sanded them further and then used some sanding sealer to seal them.

The wheel contractor delivered the tailwheel ahead of schedule.

I outlined the canopy with an X-Acto knife, and plan to use a carbide scraper to outline the exhaust ports.

You know, the I-16 plans said something about scribing certain outlines (it says to scribe the exhaust ports and cowl ring), but it is a pain to get them right.  The ID model instruction book from WW II says nothing about outlining control surfaces, except in the inspection section.  I'm not sure if I feel like scribing as much on the next ID model -- we'll see.

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on September 25, 2008, 06:15:50 PM
I'm nearly ready for the black paint on the I-16!

I've added the gun housings and scored in the canopy lines and exhausts. 

I did the original scoring with an X-Acto knife, but switched to a carbide scribe later.  It did a better job of making a "V" shaped cut.

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_I-16Full_med.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1848 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1848)

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 26, 2008, 01:01:29 PM
I look at the largest image and I am impressed with the filets. Are they solid or putty? It will look great in black I have some issues as to using matt, semi-gloss or gloss. What are you using?

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on September 26, 2008, 05:13:44 PM
Lou,

Thank you for the comments.  My son looked at the fillets and said, "Those are BIG fillets!"

I glued a 1/16-inch thick triangle of basswood between the trailing edge of the wing and the fuselage to support the bottom of the fillet.  The fillet itself was putty.  I used a layers of Squadron Green putty and an inexpensive automotive filler putty (used after Bondo, which is a two-part epoxy-like filler, to make fill small remaining scratches).  The company that makes Bondo sells a similar putty, but I bought the no-name version, which was much less expensive than either the Bondo or Squadron Green putties.  They all smell the same (awful), and handle and sand about the same.  These are all much smoother and more workable than plastic wood, which I used on my earlier models.  I wanted to try out the automotive putty because it was so much less expensive than Squadron Green.

I did spray on two coats of flat black last night.  I'm using a Krylon Flat Black spray.  I'm not sure what sort of paint it is.  The ingredients list includes acetone, and it dries fairly quickly, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was a lacquer.  They also have a semi-flat and a gloss version of the paint.

After a few coats, the finish wasn't as matte as I'd expected (I do have some model matte finish I can use if I need to), but I think it has a fairly nice appearance.  I was very surprised how much better the scored and scribed outlines look when they are painted flat black.

I have a few touch-ups, and then I'll post photos.

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 26, 2008, 06:00:28 PM
I need to smarten up and put some scribing on my ID Models as well. Mine kind of look crappy to say the least. I have quite a few Krylon colour and like the finish. The white is the best I have found to date. Their silver is not very good. The other colours are great as well as their dark gray primer. I am about to get some black for the bottom of the Ascender. The Mk II was rough carved last night at our Thu euchre night. I stray - sorry.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on September 26, 2008, 06:05:17 PM
I scribed the control surfaces on my 1/144 Spitfire, but that's the only other time I've done so.  I had better success with a carbide scribe (conical point) than with an X-Acto knife, but it definitely takes practice.  Where I messed up, I used some putty and sanded the surface smooth.

PS for the I-16, I had to do all sorts of filling on the bottom side of the wing-fuselage joint.  It really blends into the bottom of the fuselage, a detail not shown on the ID plans.

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on September 27, 2008, 04:44:36 PM
I finished the Polikarpov I-16.  The paint is still the slightest bit tacky (so probably wasn't lacquer); hopefully it will cure out in another day or so.

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_I-16FinisedTop.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1854 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1854)

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_I-16FinishedBottom.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1853 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1853)
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: cliff strachan on September 27, 2008, 05:00:48 PM
Very nice model, Garet.  Though I feel that it would be even better - if this is at all possible - if it was painted to the appropriate "realistic"  colours. This only reflects my personal bias. It seems too nice to be left in black.

Cliff

Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on September 27, 2008, 06:26:41 PM
Cliff,

I know exactly what you mean.  This is the first airplane model I have made in "ID black", and it took a lot of self-control to keep from giving it one of those bright red I-16 paint jobs with the Soviet slogans on the side.  The only reason I painted it black was because of the ID model cookup.

I did make a small PT boat that I left as "ID gray", but that isn't all that far from the scale appearance!

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 27, 2008, 07:04:39 PM
Outstanding work Garet. The bottom photo is even better with the undercarriage doors jumping out at you. Excellent model.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on September 27, 2008, 08:45:38 PM
Thanks, Lou.  I should add that I also painted it ID black because you asked me so nicely.  ;)

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 27, 2008, 09:16:53 PM
Purhaps we should have an ID+ catagory where you build to the ID Model plans, but you paint it any colour you wish. I know that would please Cliff.
Thanks for the black paint. A very good contender for model of the year.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on September 30, 2008, 07:11:43 PM
Thankfully, the paint fully hardened after an extra day.  I did notice that there was lint stuck to the model in the photo!

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: R.F.Bennett on September 30, 2008, 08:06:05 PM
Good Polikarpov restoration http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/article.asp?id=i16 (http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/article.asp?id=i16)
I have a set of decals for several versions, I haven't posted them because they are still in production.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Joe on October 16, 2009, 02:46:33 PM
Hi, All,

My quest for interesting Strombecker models has led me to WWII ID models that Strombecker marketed.  I have managed to acquire a few and plan to build them when time allows.  One that is very high on my list is the B-17.  My late uncle was a navigator and bombadier on a B-17 during WWII and, so, that warbird holds a special place in my heart. 

In the event, I found a built (and abused) Strombecker B-17 Spotter Model and have attached the photos hereto.  My plan is to see if I can dismantle it and do all the usual things to bring it back.  However, it appears that someone may have tinkered with it and used some hot glue on it.  If so, dismantling may not be an option. 

I am going to paint it flat black, but will deviate from the normal vintage process by applying the markings over the paint.  The instructions on my un-built models indicate that flat black versions should be left un-marked.  Oh, well, the Gods of Solid Models will have to forgive yet another trespass.

Photos of the model in its as-received state reveal the task ahead.  And I could not resist attaching one more photo: it is of me standing by a B-17 in which I flew two years ago.  My sons gave me that ride as a birthday present...a very happy birthday present!


Joe
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on October 16, 2009, 06:20:13 PM
Joe,

Good luck with the restoration.  What a flight that must have been on the Fortress!

The reason that they said no markings on the black model was that they didn't want to give the trainees any additional information regarding friend or foe.  I'm sure plenty of kits were built, painted black, and kept by the builders (rather than sent to the Navy as ID models), and they probably were likely to add markings.

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: dave_t on November 30, 2009, 05:07:52 PM
Garet,
     Do you know if the SMM collection of ID plans is a complete set? I just wondered if there were any others out there. Did the UK have a similar program?
Dave
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Oceaneer99 on December 01, 2009, 06:13:49 PM
Dave,

We have a complete set per the list of ID model plans at the National Air and Space Museum (NASM).  Two of our sets are from Kenny Horne's collection and were reprints made by Comet or some other model company, so they differ from the official US Navy plans.  However, I have recently received new copies from NASM of the original plans, and I intend to scan those and add them to our collection.

As to similar plans, I have read that the US Navy plans were translated into Brazilian Portuguese, but have never seen copies of these.  I have UK books printed during WW II, but these just feature commercial plans, so I don't have leads on possible official government plans.  The German government made profile cardstock models, which were mass-produced, so may not have had a plans program.  I don't know of any other "students building ID model" programs, but would be happy to hear about them.

As to ships, Ray and I visited the Puget Sound Naval Museum, which at one time had a large set of hand-made ship and aircraft ID models.  However, as part of their move to new facilities, Navy historians removed most of the collection, and none of it is currently on display (they were still rebuilding the second floor of the museum).  We do know that there were ship plans that the government printed.  One example is the German ship Koln, seen here (from the Navy Archives web site):

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_Koln-4.gif)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=0 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=0)

We also see these plans in photos from the National Archives:

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_20-2540a.gif)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=125&pos=4 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=125&pos=4)

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_20-2543a.gif)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=125&pos=3 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=125&pos=3)

These photographs were taken at Gila River Relocation Center in Arizona, and the men in them were most likely Nisei (second generation Japanese-American).

We'd love to find more of these ship plans!

Garet
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: dave_t on December 02, 2009, 02:15:16 AM
Thanks for all that info Garet. I started to post the Koln drawing last night until discovering it had been on SMM for over a year. It would be nice to find more of those plans.

  Somewhat related, I found a link to a collection of ID cards. http://www.flickr.com/photos/army-of-neff/sets/72157622754498904/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/army-of-neff/sets/72157622754498904/) I actually own these same items from WWII except mine are not cards but printed on 5x7 paper front and back. Also my collection is larger, covering allied aircraft. They belonged to my dad.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on December 02, 2009, 05:35:45 PM
Thanks for the link Garet. I will post it to the link post.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 09, 2010, 07:49:26 PM
It is hard to keep up with the various group builds. here is my SBD. This is as close to black I could get.

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF2398.JPG)(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF2407.JPG)

A B&W photo does not cut it. I will get some black primer.
Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 13, 2010, 06:26:39 PM
I broke down and bought flat black spray for the Dauntless as per Dave's comments.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF2477.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=4621

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 24, 2010, 12:42:26 AM
Here is a beauty by Dave. The Grumman Duck has been faithfully rendered according to USN plans. Excellent work Dave.

Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on September 24, 2010, 12:45:52 AM
Prior to the Duck, Dave's ME BF110 Destroyer and his Seamew missed being posted to the forum. Both beauties.

Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: dave_t on September 24, 2010, 11:44:22 AM
Lou,
   I bought a can of Tamiya's clear flat lacquer. It is a much better product than Testors version (and it costs more). Thanks for posting the photos.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on October 13, 2010, 07:39:56 PM
One more !!! Dave posted the drawing, I just had to make one.
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=4654

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on October 24, 2010, 02:23:04 AM
RCAF 430 Squadron flew the Mustang Mk 1 late into the war. Here is a participant in D Day activities in 1/72 scale. Pine construction with home made decals. I found that wetting just the backside of the decal makes all the difference in getting the decal colours to stay vibrant and not bleed. Paints are model Master and Krylon rattle can. I must admit I love these ID + models.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_Mustang_Mk_1.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=4659
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_Mustang_Mk_1_Multi.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pid=4658
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: dave_t on October 24, 2010, 11:18:32 AM
Lou, I guess you are using white decal paper. Did you make the RNZAF roundels for the Dauntless?
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on October 24, 2010, 11:40:05 AM
Yes I made the RNZAF and RCAF decals on white film. Only black items are on clear film. Roundels are a collage of MS Office basic shapes. I made them extra large and inserted into MS Paint to make an image. I then shrunk them to size. My decal making has come a long way.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on November 12, 2010, 06:40:42 PM
One more to add to the growing collection.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF3370.JPG)(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_Spitfire_Mk_VB.JPG)

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on November 17, 2010, 04:49:09 PM
Two more beauties from Dave. A Mitsubishi A5M Claude and a Curtis Seagull SOC. Both from the USN Recognition models from plans found in the gallery. Both models came out superbly.

I will add these to the Model of the Year set.

Lou


Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: dave_t on November 17, 2010, 05:14:43 PM
Just trying to get all the unfinished projects completed before the December 31st (or 32nd?) deadline. :)
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on November 17, 2010, 08:08:02 PM
I do my best work on the 32nd of every month.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on November 23, 2010, 11:47:38 AM
Excellent collection of of seagoing crafts.
What are your plans for mounting?

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on December 20, 2010, 01:21:55 AM
Another superb model by Dave.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Jim on December 21, 2010, 05:46:53 AM
Here's two views of my B-24D, made from the I.D. series plans.(//)
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Boomerang on December 21, 2010, 06:24:33 AM

  Well done ! Looks great.
  Gordon
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on December 21, 2010, 06:57:35 PM
Love the way it turned out. What type of wood did you use?

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Ken Pugh on December 21, 2010, 07:01:59 PM
Very cool, looks like a good technique for a Constellation model.

Ken Pugh
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: dave_t on December 22, 2010, 02:36:39 AM
Very very nice. The stand is great too. What do you think of those ID plans after making one?

I think Lou did a laminate model one time with alternating colors.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Jim on December 22, 2010, 05:25:29 AM
Thanks for the kind comments. I used basswood, walnut and mahogany for the model and the stand. The base is just a simple pine one from a crafts shop. They stopped selling them, so I make my own now with a router.

I like the I.D. plans very much, and I'm grateful that they've been made available here.

I'm guess I'm not a slave to scale. I like to re-size them. As several people have noted, some of them need to be doctored a bit here and there to make up for wartime inaccuracies, but by and large they make wonderful form studies, and they lend themselves well to artsy flourishes like laminations and exotic woods. I've made quite a number of them that way. I'd be glad to share some photos of them. Should I post them here? I don't have a gallery board. If the administratrors could set one up for me, I could do it there. Whatever's best...



 
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: R.F.Bennett on December 22, 2010, 02:17:04 PM
I'll set something up for you, It will take me a few days though. I'll email the details to you.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Jim on December 22, 2010, 07:46:20 PM
Many thanx. I'll look forward to it.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Jim on December 23, 2010, 10:32:28 PM
...In the meantime, just to keep the discussion rolling, here's two more photos of an ID model:  The Grumman F3F-2, done in poplar, purpleheart and walnut...
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on December 23, 2010, 10:35:47 PM
Awesome modeling. Thanks for posting for us to see. I will place the image in the Model of the Year post.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: cliff strachan on December 23, 2010, 11:00:32 PM
Your Grumman is really something ie great.
Cliff.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Peter on December 24, 2010, 12:16:18 AM
Wow your models look very cool and are inspirational.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Jim on December 25, 2010, 04:52:16 PM
Thank you all for your kind appreciation. Now that Ray's kindly established a "projects" board for me, I'll post some pictures of my other models there.

Merry Christmas, all!

jim
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on April 14, 2011, 02:11:24 PM
Two more excellent 1/72 WW II recognition models from Dave. The aircraft are superb representations of the Nomad and Texan and feature excellent workmanship and finish. Congratulations Dave, you are a master model maker.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Balsabasher on April 14, 2011, 08:51:49 PM
I have always liked the look of the Nomad,two realistic looking ID models,well done Sir.
Barry.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on April 21, 2011, 05:19:40 PM
Dave's work is always a pleasure to see.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: dave_t on April 21, 2011, 05:43:23 PM
Barry, I did not know the A-17 was ever known as a Nomad. Learn something new every day!

Thanks Lou, I should have something more to post in this thread during 2011.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Balsabasher on April 21, 2011, 08:49:56 PM
Dave I think the name 'Nomad' came from its RAF connection when some were purchased from France.
Barry.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on March 17, 2012, 01:55:02 PM
I neglected to post my Airacobra to this thread.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF7083.JPG)
I found the P-39 an easy build and would do nicely for a beginner.

Lou

Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on March 17, 2012, 11:42:38 PM
Construction has begone and has reached the point where all pieces are rough cut and ready for some serious carving using X-Acto knife and chisel. I deviate from the plans by building in the dihydral rather than cuting and gluing. It uses a bit more wood but I prefer that method.

Lou

You can compare the Mosquito and Devastator wing spans in the first photo.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on April 08, 2012, 10:03:49 PM
The Martlet has rolled out and is ready for flight.


Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: buccfan on April 08, 2012, 10:09:44 PM
I like that Lou, very nice colour scheme and the spinning props look great.Regards Paul J.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on April 08, 2012, 10:53:37 PM
Thank you Paul. You can thank Ken for showing us with his B-25 spinning prop discs.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on April 08, 2012, 11:00:31 PM
The 1/72 WWII ID Fleet now has 14 aircraft.

Left to right
Top row:  Thunderbolt, Beaufort, Spifire, Thunderbolt, Dauntless, Corsair, Harvard,
2nd row: Mitchell, Mustang Lightning, Kittyhawk, Mustang, Firefly, Airacobra and Martlet.

Lou

Note Firefly is not a WWII ID aircraft.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Peter on April 09, 2012, 02:39:43 AM
That's an amazing collection Lou! Soon you'll be catching up to Barry. I take it the upper shelf is plastic kits? They look equally impressive.

Peter
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Balsabasher on April 09, 2012, 10:08:39 AM
The Martlet looks splendid in that scheme Lou,you will soon need some more shelves in your display area !
Barry.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on April 09, 2012, 01:25:16 PM
Thank you all. I want to do a seperate display area for the WWII ID but alas, money is a great hinderance these days.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on May 21, 2012, 10:04:20 PM
Latest addition to the WWII list is the Devastator and the Mosquito.

Lou

Next???
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Balsabasher on May 21, 2012, 10:33:12 PM
Your Mossie has turned out really well Lou,love the finish as well.
Barry.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on May 21, 2012, 11:02:05 PM
Thank you Barry. Not quite up to your standard but getting there.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Balsabasher on May 21, 2012, 11:17:34 PM
Your standards are high Lou,do not under rate yourself,I always say to myself well the next model will be just that little bit better and when you look back at earlier models you can see the differences,I really think that each model is a learning curve.
Barry.
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on August 27, 2012, 12:29:03 PM
The Hellcat and Mustang D are not true USN WWII ID models but are built in the same fashion.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on February 27, 2017, 11:34:11 PM
I have been neglecting to update this cook-up. My WWII ID since Aug 2012

Lou
South Korean P-51
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF6325.JPG)
BP Defiant RCAF 410 Sqn
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_Boulton_Paul_Defiant_RAF_003.JPG)
BP Defiant RAF No 2 Sqn
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF6183.JPG)
Finish P-51
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF5964.JPG)
RNAF P-51
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_P-51_RNLAF_001.jpg)
HE-111
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF5882.JPG)
RAAF P-51
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF5530.JPG)
AVRO Lancaster
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_Avro_LANCASTER.JPG)
Mosquito Mk II RCAF 410 Sqn
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF4819.JPG)
Mosquito Mk I
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF3971.JPG)
HP Hampden
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_Handley_Page_Hampden_P5884_005.jpg)
Pe-2
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_IMG_2932.JPG)
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on May 17, 2018, 10:55:38 PM
Latest addition is my Royal Canadian Air Force Hawker Hurricane 401 Squadron circa 1940.

Lou

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_Hurricane_-01.jpg)
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Boomerang on May 19, 2018, 10:25:09 PM

Well done! Looks great.

Gordon
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on May 20, 2018, 12:56:22 PM
The decals are very disappointing but look OK from 3m away. My hand are just shakes too much these days.

Lou
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on December 05, 2021, 01:17:26 PM
Update on ID models in my collection.

Mitsubishi Type 00 006 Zero
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_WWII_ID_Mitsubishi_Type_00_006.jpg)

Vultee A-31 Vengeance
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_A-31_Vultee_Vengeance_009.jpg)

Bristol Blenheim
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_72_-_Blenheim_015.jpg)

Bristol Beaufighter
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_Bristol_Beaufighter_IIF_016.png)

Messerschmitt BF-109
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_72_Messerschmitt_BF-109E_005.png)

Aichi D3A Val
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_72_-_Aichi_KI-99_Val_015.png)

JU-88
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_72_JU-88_008.png)

Nakajima KI-27 Nate
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_72_Nakajima_KI-27_Nate_006.png)

Brewster Buffalo
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_72_-_Brewster_F-2a_Buffalo_007.png)


Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on December 05, 2021, 01:44:28 PM
Some of the larger ID models from the collection:

Consolidated Liberator Mk V
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_Liberator_Mk_V_207.jpg)

Douglas DC-3
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF1458.JPG)(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_DSCF1413.JPG)

AVRO Lancaster
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10004/normal_Avro_LANCASTER.JPG)
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: Boomerang on December 07, 2021, 07:30:59 PM

Impressive collection.

Gordon
Title: Re: WWII ID Models
Post by: lastvautour on December 07, 2021, 08:43:06 PM
Thank you Gordon. I have yet to include those that are not on the ID plans list, but constructed in the same manor.

Lou