Solid Model Memories.net

Hi Mark,
I've been intending to comment on your Puss Moth for quite some time. It is a very beautiful model and is a model of possibly one of the most unique aircraft of all times. In Vol 30 No.1 Spring 1992 pp 14 - 22 of the CAHS Journal the article "Bert Hinkler and Canada"  described his successful solo flight from Toronto to London, England in 1931. The map accompanying the article shows where he flew CF - APK from Toronto via New York, Kingston, Trinidad, Natal, Brazil to cross the South Atlantic to West Africa and on to London. Regrettably "the type was beginning to demonstrate structural idiosyncrasies" and "accidents were happening involving wing separation in flight." Bert crashed on his way to Australia later and it was determind that the cause was separation of the wing.
Such long distance flights is what I had in mind when I suggested that such flights might be the subject of a future "cook up".

Cliff.

Sometimes I think it must have been nerve wracking to fly in some of those 1920s-30s airplanes with folding wings such as the Puss Moth.  Only a simple pin held the wing in the unfolded position.

I can think of two models I'd be interested in doing for a long distance flights cook up.   Unfortunately, my modeling time is limited and my "must build" list keeps getting longer and longer so my participation would be long delayed.  I've got all the information to do both, colors etc.  

1.  Replica of 1:72 Skybirds Percival Gull Four G-ACJV "Miss Southern Cross", as flown by Sir Charles Kingsford Smith from England to Australia in '33.

2.  1:72 modified DH-4B flown by Lt. W.D.Coney in two transcontinental record attempts in 1921.

Hi Mark,
Your remarks accompanying your photos of the Percival Gull and DH4-B support my effort to encourage you to second a recommendation that "long distance flights" be the subject of a future "cook-up". I'll herein make the primary recommendation for such a cook-up. It, as I understand, only takes two to have a cook-up proceed. I would not be concerned about the length of time it may take. They are open for an unending period. Personally I have two Hellcats - construction completed but awaiting to be painted - to submit as part of what now appears to be an ancient cook-up.
Cliff

Cliff,
OK, consider it seconded.
As mentioned, I don't know when and with what airplane I would enter at this point in time.   Maybe "none of the above"; I have to think about it as I have a solid already started that would fit the category.  It's been on the proverbial "back burner" for years and this might be the motivation to finish it.

There are lots of subjects suitable for Long Distance Flights category.  Consider the P-38s that shot down Admiral Yamamoto's Betty for example. 

Cheers,
Mark

Hi Mark,
I believe it's up to Lou now. Also I'm of the opinion that an account of the historical importance or uniqueness of a flight or its contribution might accompany the model's posting.
Cliff.


Lou,
Can you move this thread to the Cook-ups and Ongoing Builds section please?

Thanks,
Mark

The Long Distance Cook-Up is on. I will play also, but don't have a subject yet. There are quite a few. Do you wish to narrow the time line? Let's say between the wars period?

Lou

This is only my personal opinion and I would like to suggest, but not to offend, that we let it be wide open.  The more I think about it the more subjects come to mind on this topic.  We have the opportunity to get a varied response to this one and maybe expand interest to others.  The first modern plane that came to mind was Rutan's non-stop around the world flight but then I remembered that a group of B-52s also made the non-stop flight with refueling.  I think there were also B-52 flights that tested atomic clocks to verify general relativity, though it might have been the same flight.  This cookup could also extend to balloons!  Bleriot's cross-channel flight to Voyager, what a great collection of aircraft!

Ken Pugh

There are even a couple of modern solar planes being readied for around-the-world flight.  My model of the Lisa Hybird is one of those, but there is also the Solar Impulse.  And I've always been a fan of Voyager -- used to visit it at the Air and Space Museum all the time, where it is suspended over the welcome desk.  I loved seeing where the winglets rubbed off the wingtips during take-off, because it made the museum plane seem very real.  It must have been scary, but always reminded me of the unpredictability of efforts like that.

Garet

I would also like to enter this cook-up but as yet I haven't picked an aircraft to model to say nothing of the workload involved. I believe, as others have indicated, that the subject approach to cook-ups will require a bit of defining of goals. Perhaps, as Lou has suggested, a period should become generally acceptable. Recently there has appeared an emphasis on older aircraft. Those extending back to the First World War and featuring biplanes. If an historical approach is assumed then perhaps we could begin by focusing on the aviation events that occurred primarily before the Second War. I have thought that such flights when they were individually inspired were generally the most daring as one was never compelled to make them in the first place but did so on a very individualistic basis - no backups such as maintenance, planning, briefings and rescues.  Also, very many of the later aircraft have already been modeled and are available in kit form.
Just a few things to consider but possibly the grounds for a significant contribution by SMM to Aviation History the Individuals and their dedication to the development of this mode.
Cliff.

My own preference would be to have the entire time-line of human flight open to the cook-up if only to broaden the prospect for more participation.  My personal choice would be within the 1919-1939 "Golden Age" but I have no objection of earlier and later eras being included as well.   I would also like to point out that many of the early long distance flights were military efforts and were not the efforts of individuals.   I'm thinking of the 1924 Douglas World Cruisers, the US Army's flight of four DH-4Bs from New York City to Alaska and back in 1920 <see link> or the 1926 return formation flight of RAF Fairey IIIDs from Cairo to Capetown.  The list is long and I personally would like to keep it that way but I am happy to consult with Cliff, Lou and other prospective participants to come to a consensus.

http://www.litsite.org/index.cfm?section=digital-archives&page=Land-Sea-Air&cat=Aviation&viewpost=2&ContentId=2627

I hear you loud and clear. The restriction was only a suggestion that I now want to ignore as I enter my CP-107 Argus in the mix. The following is a quote from the RCAF web site

The Argus had a reputation as a workhorse and had tremendous endurance. With a flight crew of five, and an additional six sensor operators, the Aircraft flew missions in excess of twenty hours frequently. An Argus flown by 407 Maritime Patrol Squadron held the record for the longest flight by an unrefuelled Aircraft, slightly over 31 hours. This record stood for almost twenty years until broken by a Rutan experimental Aircraft which circled the globe unrefuelled. The Aircraft served from the 50's to the 80's until it was replaced by the current CP-140 Aurora Aircraft.

My Argus needed a shot in the arm, or I should say I did.

Lou

This cookup could bring in some really interesting subjects as solid models,there have been quite a few long distance flights over the years.
I have one up my sleeve for this and just searching out some plans for it.
Looking forward to it,is it on Gentlemen ?
Barry.

I will be participating with an already started (18-19 years ago  :o) 1:72 scale Fairey IIID of the 14,000 mile Cairo-Cape-Cairo-England flight, one of the four IIIDs which completed the flight in formation and without mishap between 1 March and 27 May 1926.   See pic.  It is made to drawings which appear in the May, 1965 issue of Model Aircraft.

A Portugese Navy IIID named Santa Cruz was part of the first aircraft crossing of the South Atlantic and survives in Lisbon.

I would think that Barry would indeed have lots in the line of history to contribute to this cook-up. What might be still required is: how  to present an historical account of the place in aviation or role that the aircraft modeled and posted played. That is, how to simultaneously post both photos of the model and a brief history. Such an account may provide a valuable service that the Group may offer both to the general public and potential members.
Cliff.

You are right Cliff,in fact it was the romantic flight that my aeroplane made that places it in this category,here you have it,can you guess the type of aeroplane ?
My flight started from a tiny grass airfield in the UK,the pilot who owned a tea plantation in India had purchased his aircraft new and wanted to deliver it himself,his adventures would see him force landing in the desert in a sandstorm and having to clean the engine himself of abrasive sand before he started it by hand unaided,then he had to drop into a small field being used for a polo match out of fuel ! and all of this with no radio or any other navigational devices,he eventually completed the flight and landed proudly on his own airstrip in the remote areas of India with his workers cheering him.
How about that for high adventure ! and if it was not enough he did the trip again in reverse,fantastic days of adventure when the skies were relatively empty of aeroplanes.
A book was written about this adventure incidently.
All will be revealed soon,I just need to find the plans which are stashed away deep in my archives ?
Barry. 

Barry,
Sounds like a Comper Swift.  Let me know if you still need Swift drawings....I have several.

Cheers,
Mark

Spot on Mark ! yes please could do with drawings,most welcome as my folder is missing and I have been looking for it all day.
The famous 'Scarlet Angel' G-ACTF and VT-ADO,aircraft now in the Shuttleworth collection,hard to believe that I was offered this very aircraft back in 1962 for £200,my improvers wages of 2/- thats two old shillings would not strech that far.
Barry.

Barry,
This Pobjoy engine plan from the Popular Science plans thread in General Discussion area.  Just the thing for your Swift  ;).

Mark

How did you know that I was looking for the Pobjoy plan Mark ! excellent and now I can make a start,thank you.
Barry.

There were quite a few planes that used those small Pobjoys in the 1930s. Can anyone explain why they had that extra gearbox for the prop?

Dave the Pobjoy series were quite unique little engines,to work on one is like handling a complicated sewing machine with lots of tiny parts to them and required skilled hands to work on them,as the engines were required to drive efficent small propellers they needed to be geared as the engines were fast revving and required matching to suitable propellers to get the best from them,no small engine has quite matched its performance for its size.
The Pobjoy Niagara was a British seven-cylinder, air-cooled, radial, aero-engine first produced in 1934, with an unusual offset-from-centre propshaft due to its engine reduction gearing,note aslso the cooling fins on the gearbox.
The whole range of Pobjoy motors were seven-cylinder radials with compact dimensions and they all had a very high rpm. The entire Pobjoy range was well regarded due to its small diameter, smooth operation, low noise and innovative engineering,they were also trouble free and very reliable in all temperatures of operation.
It is hard to believe now that when I worked in aviation in the sixties we threw away at least three of these engines,I did salvage the rocker covers which I later gave to a Pobjoy owner,such was the disregard then for preserving our aviation history.
Barry.

Here is where I am for the start the LDF Cook-up.   This is my 1:72 scale Fairey IIID from the 1926 RAF's showing of the colours flights between Cairo and the Cape. The model was started many years ago and stalled because there is just so much detail to go on this thing.  This cook-up will hopefully see it finished.   The Skybirds airman has a long wait; he should probably go get a sandwich and some coffee. 

The rib tapes are bond paper applied with nitrate dope.

Mark

Do a little bit each day Mark,it is surprisaing how continuity brings results,you have the basis for a wonderful model there,yes there is a lot of work on biplanes but they really are worth the extra effort.
Barry.

Started on the Comper Swift project for the Long Distance Flight cook up.
Yes a Comper Swift done as VT-ADO/G-ACTF 'Scarlet Angel' as flown from Old Warden/Hooton Park to a tea plantation in India in 1936 by a certain Mr Ali,the adventure became a book called 'The Scarlet Angel' which has eluded me for over sixty years.
Having worked on this particular Comper Swift at Baginton it holds nostalgic memories for me,when I first started in aviation the Swift was stripped down and placed in a corner of the hangar where we used to have tea,the prop and various other parts were used to hang our coats and other items of clothing ! the scars of heavy landings and a hard life were there to see but I fell in love with this tiny aeroplane and have modelled it many times since,so my latest model needed a miniature Pobjoy to place up front,this item makes or breaks such a subject as the Comper Swift,here you see my rendering made from scrap bits and pieces today,note the intricate cooling fins and exhaust ring plus collector,and the tiny valve gear and pushrods and that distinctive propeller,bear in mind when you view this picture that what you are seeing is a mere two inches diameter,all I have to do now is build the rest of the Comper Swift around this engine.
Materials used were split bamboo,toothpicks,barbecue sticks,Meccano cord for binding the cylinders,lite ply for the cooling fins,basswood for the propeller and a tiny turned spinner,the exhaust collector ring is heavy duty electric wire and the collectors are thick grade solder,once painted a silvery black colour the engine will start to come alive.
Barry.


(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10005/normal_POBJOY_8.JPG)

Excellent engine Barry. Please make reference to it in the radial engine post.

Lou

The model is coming along and the wing was constructed today complete with ribbing tapes and riblets to the leading edge of the wing,the tiny wheel spats fitted to G-ACTF on occasions have been modelled as well with the distinctive centre strut made from a vintage aluminium knitting needle,the lift struts need to be made up as well as other small items to capture the distinctive lines of this famous aeroplane.

the diminutive Comper Swift, finished as 'Scarlet Angel' G-ACTF/VT-ADO for Alis famous trip to Asam in India where he owned a tea plantation,landing on polo grounds and roads he even managed to fit in a bit of air racing on the way.
What these little Swifts achieved in terms of records and air racing success is made even more remarkable by the fact that only a few aircraft were actually built considering their huge success as a small private owner aeroplane.
The geared Pobjor R powerplant was akin to a complex sewing machine.

D.R. Pobjoy established Pobjoy Airmotors after working with Roy Fedden at the Cosmos Engineering Company. The company started in Surrey, but later moved to Hooten and Kent. Its first engine, the Pobjoy "P" was approved in1928. Perhaps the best known was the Pobjoy Type "R", which powered the Cierva/Comper C-25 Autogiro, Comper C.L.A. Swift, Currie Super Wot, General Aircraft Monospar ST-4 and -6, Kay 33/1 Gyroplane, Miles M.1 Satyr, and Short S.16 Scion. Later Pobjoy engines included the Niagara and Cataract.
Barry.

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10005/normal_20110428_2.JPG)

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10005/normal_20110428_2.JPG)

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10005/normal_20110428_5.JPG)

(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/10005/20110428_9.JPG)

The Swift looks grand Barry.  Pic attached is the Comper Swift logo decal as reproduced by John Greenland (of Aeromodeller fame) for his full size replica.

Mark

She's looking good, Barry.  It almost looks like a little RC model!

Ken Pugh

I will reproduce that splendid logo on my model Mark,thank you for these useful references.

Ken I have built in the past small free flight models of the Swift no larger than this one,also a larger R/C version which flew beautifully,you are right it does look like a small flying model in these pictures.

John Greenlands replica is exceptional,you can purchase a CNC cut set of fittings for the Comper Swift today,the biggest problem is getting hold of any Pobjoy R engines as that holds the character of this aeroplane.

Barry.

Barry,
I hope this post doesn't take this thread too far off track, if it does, the moderator is welcome to delete it.  I too have built a free flight Swift with 24" span and have a LOT of information on them.  Excellent new web site that didn't exist when I did my research is here:
http://nickcomper.co.uk/

Mark

Yes Mark I am familiar with that wonderful insight into Nick Compers life and thank you for sharing it here,I was just thinking to myself by building our solid models how we come to share much knowledge and history behind those men of iron and machines from times past,such a sad ending to his life as well.
Did you spot the solid model of a Comper Swift on his desk ? it seems to be minus the tail fin,no doubt early promotional material.
If you like Mark we can create another thread to discuss this aeroplane and its fascinating engine and history,I think we could share some knowledge on the Comper Swift models we have built. 
Barry.

Hi Barry,
Your remarks concerning history as it pertains to aviation I fully endorse. In past postings I noted that you had been of the opinion that solid models could be viewed as art. While without a doubt certainly many of the models that our members have submitted I would also tend to identify as art objects, but after talking to someone more familiar with the art world than myself it has been pointed out that art is generally something that has the potential to interpretate the environment or object rather than to be simply a craft. Therefore, it appears that we are left with only history as the group's contribution. Just how we might go about this may be the subject of much later discussion but probably well worth our effort.

Perhaps it's only a function of age but considering all the effort expended in this hobby hopefully some lasting or universal benefit can be realized. As a start we might consider the current Long Distance Flight cook up as the point to begin.
Cliff.

I would put my solid model carving interest in the hobby category.

Cliff some interesting and very valid points made there,I think that there are many overlaps with our solid models,there is an element of social history attached to them as I see it,in my mind I conjure up WW2 when solids were peaking as useful tools for identification and people were being encouraged to get carving,prior to that in the roaring thirties we had Lindbergh promoting aviation big time with his remarkable flight which brought loads of solid kits and plans to the forefront,after the war solids started to decline even before the plastic kit explosion and the well known and equally lesser known kit manufacturers started to vanish,after that as they say is history.
As we build models then our interest turns towards the origin of the particular design,soon we start delving into books and research takes place bringing other aspects such as who designed and flew them ?
I really think that the hobby has survived well considering the other more readily available distractions in model building,old hands like us are bringing out the blueprints from yesteryear previously stashed away in drawers in case one day we may just build a certain type,what SMM is certainly instrumental in doing is keeping old skills alive,not content with mere assembly we yearn for creating miniatures from nothing,some may not understand our motives behind what we do but the end products certainly speak for themselves,one comment I had was 'Do you mean to say you make models from blocks of wood !' I then respectfully point out that any part produced commercially was once a piece of wood as someone had to make that master !
Regarding a way of contribution to history I think you only need to look at the wonderful 'Wings of Peace' web site to see the scope of creating beyond well known subject matter,civil aviation often neglected has much to offer as we well know,by creating interesting cook ups then perhaps we can venture into the more little known subjects,some of these have contributed to aviation history in many ways perhaps not with the glamour of some types but on the other hand can create some interesting challenges in shapes and designs.
We all see it in different ways,some of us are historians come model builders,others are happy just to carve wood into interesting models with no other criteria attached,whatever the main  thing is we all have fun and we all certainly learn a lot from each other along the way,both about the actual technique of building to the history of the subject matter itself.  
Great talkling to you about our love for our hobby and the deeper aspects of it.
Barry.

Lots to think about there Barry. In the end I believe that, with others, we can only be sure that globally it's a hobby and be thankful for that. (I suppose that I was hopping that somehow we could include in our cook up postings an additional brief offering as to why this particular aircraft was at one time so important so that the general public may also be aware.)
Cliff.

Fairey IIID undercarriage (floats) struts filed from brass strip.   This material often available at model shops that cater to the model railroader.  Makes for a very strong model. 

Mark

Ideal material Mark and it files up beautifully,you need the strength in the area of floats and pontoons,it also grabs well with thin cyno with a little roughing up of the area to be fixed,available in strips and much easier than making your own with a piercing saw,thats a lovely subject that you are tackling.
Barry.

A couple of photos showing the fabrication of an elevator control horn from a slice of extruded brass angle strip.  The horn was attached to the elevator with cyano, an ideal adhesive for attaching brass due to the copper content in brass which acts as a "kicker".  Final shaping of horn with files after cyano sets.

Mark

Mark you learn something new every day,I often wondered why brass always sticks so well to wood,now thanks to yourself I know,the most awkward seems to be ply to balsa where a bit of kicker does not come amiss,you can purchase kicker in aerosol form but keep your fingers away if you do not want to weld them together !
Barry.

First photo here shows the floats temporarily attached.  Getting six brass undercarriage struts and the two music wire spreader bars sized and aligned is not a task to attempt when in a foul mood.  I ended up soldering the apexes  of the  "V" struts at the rear of the floats to make it bearable.  All strut lengths and angles were worked out in a temporary fixture.  The block under the port wing is a dummy forward fuselage used in the fixture to hold the upper ends of the six struts.

Model is fitted out with rudimentary cockpit detail in the pilot's cockpit.  Very hard to photograph though.  Still need to install control wheel (Deperdussin control system) and crew members after painting.

Mark

Mark this is going to be a beautiful model,the idea of the 'slave' component is something often used in the aircraft industry,we once fitted a DECCA navigator and the company supplied wooden components to represent the more delicate real bits when they arrived.
There is only one way forward with a model like the subject that you are building and that is extreme patience,but the end results are alreading showing and your fine skills evident.
Barry.

A fantastic bit of work Mark. Congratulation on a remarkable project so far.

Lou

A wonderful model,Mark. I especially am attracted to the fine cockpit detail and the very good job that you've done with the ribbing - in itself a difficult and timely process.

Cliff.

Thank you gentlemen.

The tailplane is assembled with just a bit of droop in the elevators as I want to depict the model either on the water or on a beaching dolly.   All timber in the model is basswood and all of the techniques used are out of W. O. Doylend's book Aircraft in Miniature.   The internet was only in it's infancy when I started this build and the only way to learn was from the veteran modelers/modellers or by reading the classic books on the subject.  Oh yes, and learning by error, can't forget that.

Mark

I have heard of the Doylend book before, but have never seen a copy. Was he a solid modelmaker?

I like the delicate ribbing you have done on the wings. That is basswood as well, or paper?

Dave

Quote from: dave_t on June 21, 2011, 01:04:46 AM
I have heard of the Doylend book before, but have never seen a copy. Was he a solid modelmaker?
Dave

Dave, I recommend you to get hold of a copy its an excellent book.  There are usually a few copies on UK Amazon (unbelievably 15! as of this moment http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=doylend (http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=doylend)) and very reasonable in price (I'd avoid ex-public-library copies), often only a fiver or thus a quid more than a model magazine and way better value.  It covers every single aspect of solid modelling, though a bit "fundamentalist" in that he does frown on balsa and some techniques such as painted canopies or using commercial decals!!!  There are photos of plenty of his models, nearly all British but all very good and some now obscure / forgotten types.  You would read it several times through, I know I have.
Will

Yes W.O.Doyland was a well known solid modeller,he wrote a series of articles on building solids in the 'Aeromodeller' magazine which later culminated into the book 'Aircraft in Miniature' he worked from a tiny shed in his back garden and recorded in detail every step he made with his models including the time spent on each from the mighty Bristol Brabazon and Blackburn Beverly to the tiny DH.71 Tiger Moth monoplane,his models were auctioned off after his passing going all over the world.
His techniques have been used by model builders ever since and he would have been proud to have been here with us on SMM.
The collection appeared on British televisions 'Blue Peter' childrens programme.
Barry.

Dave,
The rib tapes are strips of note paper applied with clear nitrate dope.  Additional coats of dope over the ribs and then rubbed down with 400 grit sandpaper to reduce the thickness of the paper.  More dope to lay down the fuzzies.  Applying the paper strips is not all that difficult; just enough tension on the paper to keep the strip straight but not too much so as to break the strip.  It's right out of Doylend.  Picture of my well thumbed copy attached.

The wing shown here is the upper wing for the Fairey, still needs dihedral and ribbing.

Mark

It will be interesting to see how you handle the rigging.

One of the "old school" methods in Doylend's book about which I had my doubts was this process for steaming and bending in dihedral.  Well, having now used it on two models, both biplanes, I can say it works splendidly.  Here are photos of the wing in flat state but with the center section scribed top and bottom, next, before the kettle and then checking the dihedral angle with the scale drawing.  See page 42 of Doylend's book and follow the instructions therin exactly.  Doylend mentions steam bending dihedral in wings up to 3/4" thick. 

Mark

A novel approach. Thanks for sharing.

Lou

Very effective treatment Mark,sometimes we forget how steam can shape wood as with this exercise.
Barry

Well Mark you convinced me. I ordered Doylend's book from Amazon (used) after you posted the photo of the cover. I just found out it has arrived at my parcel drop in Washington State. So tomorrow or Wednesday I'll head down to pick it up. I'm looking forward to reading it only cost $8.00 :o

Peter

I bought a copy as well, and am very impressed.  It is certainly the most technical one I've seen, and I see a lot of techniques discussed in the book that I've seen in the work of members here.

Garet

Oh just for the record I also bought a copy. But not yet arrived. Sounds good by the comments made so far.
Cliff.

I just picked up my copy of Aircraft in Miniature today. Its a 1957 first edition a little banged up but very readable. It looks like its full of useful stuff not to mention a piece of solid model history!

Peter

It is good to see these remaining copies of this classic book being snapped up by real solid modellers here,it is a good little book so full of knowledge from a lifetime of solid modelling by the author.
Barry.

Well Summer is truely here in Illinois with high temperatures reaching the 90°Fs most days.  The basement where I do my modeling is a bit cooler but I still can only work under the bright lamp for 20 minutes or so at a stretch.  I've been doping the paper ribs onto the upper wing as shown.  Very tedious and I will be glad when that task is complete.   I'm amazed that when I come back to the wing after applying 2 or 3 ribs that some have shifted and are no longer straight.  Means soaking them off with thinner or at least loosening them so they can be straightened.

Mark

Mark the dope is constantly working and pulling as it dries,have you thought of using Pritt stik dry adhesive ? it works well on this type of application,just a suggestion.
Barry.

Mark, another method is to suspend the wing and clip a clothpin to each end of the strips to provide a bit of tension while they dry. I used the method while using thread as ribs indicators.

Lou

The four Fairey IIIDs used in the long distance Cairo to Cape then back to Cairo flight made the epic journey with wheel undercarriages.  Upon their return to Heliopolis (Cairo) aerodrome, they were fitted with floats and then continued on their way to the UK via Italy and France.  The float version is what I'm modelling, obviously, and that's based on the scale drawing I used from a 1965 issue of Model Aircraft.   The drawing shows the wingtip floats and the tail float with distinctive black and white dot markings but I'd never seen a photograph showing those float markings.....until today!  

This postcard showed up for sale on ebay.  Not a clear photo but it confirms the black and white dot markings on the tip and tail floats.  Location of the photo is Lee-on-Solent, the terminus of the flight.  This is a Great Day!

Mark :)

How interesting Mark,I know what it feels like to confirm something like this,incredible what turns up on E-Bay.
Barry.

Still moving along, albeit at a snail's pace.  Here's the current state of the upper wing, all the paper ribs having been rubbed down to thin them and two coats of non-filling primer sanded.  The usual filling primers would almost eliminate the ribs.  The aileron and flap demarcations have also been re-scribed.  The prominent aileron and flap control horns are filed from brass.   There are no ribs on the underside of the undercambered wing.  Looking at photographs of the IIID survivor in Portugal, I decided any underside ribbing would not really be visible at this (1:72) scale so have left it out.

Mark

Mark your wing is looking really realistic and I like those brass aileron horns as well.
Barry.

Very nice work.

Lou

The engine for my Fairey IIID has been some difficulty.  Some years ago, when Aeroclub were still going, I ordered their Napier Lion white metal castings for this model.  When they arrived, I was really happy with the castings until I offered them up to the model.   Something was clearly amis.  Now I was aware that the P. G. Cooksley drawing of the Fairey IIID has its fair share of errors but I was shocked to find the supposedly 1:72 scale Aeroclub parts only about 75% of the size of the engine as drawn on the Cooksley drawing which was also supposedly 1:72 scale.   Which was correct?   As the years passed, and this project languished, I started researching the Napier Lions, yes Lions, because there are quite a few variants.  Specifically I was interested in the Lion V which powered Fairey IIIDs in the S1074-1108 serials batch.   Well, I never did find drawings of the Lion V but I did find drawings of the Lion II which powered earlier Fairey IIIDs.   In photos, one can't really tell one from the other when mounted in the airplane so I made my own engine 3-view to 1:72 scale.  It appears the actual size of a 1:72 Lion is somewhere in between the Aeroclub castings and the Cooksley drawing.  So, I will shortly be making my own little Napier Lion V with the help of Mr. Doylend's book.

The Napier Lion really is a lovely engine to look at.  One of the reasons I wanted to build the IIID is because I like the Lion and much of it is uncovered in this airplane.

Mark

Ho!  that takes me back. I did a model of Miss Britain III, the record breaking speedboat and that had a Napier Lion in it, fully wired and plumbed in 1/12th scale and hooked up to a marine Vee drive gearbox.
Lovely looking engine.

Martin

The 1/72 Napier Lion begins to take shape.  First photo shows crankcase shaped from a strip of 1/4" square pine.  The shaping done with a vintage Hook Scraper (brand).  The second photo shows the twelve cylinders attached made from ø2mm dowel.  It's resting on an American penny.

There is something very satisfying about building your very own engine replicas,as the tiny parts go together the desire to complete the engine moves you into action,this is a good example of the aircrafts essential character due to its engine detail,well done Mark and I look forward to seeing the end result.
Barry.

A very nice engine, Mark. And being so small I can well appreciate the work involved.
Cliff.

Interesting cylinder set up. I have never seen that before but the complexity is amazing. I shy away from the older aircraft as making those inline engines are still a bit of a mystery to me. I look forward to the finished model.

Lou

Found these pics recently on the web....a chap in the UK restoring a Lion V to running condition.  I truely admire people who take on a task like this one.  Anyway, I just love these engines.  My 1/72 engine will be a very much simplified representation but it would be nice to build a larger one as Martin has done.
Mark

Mark, the pictures are certainly handy if not an essential requirement when trying to make engines. But I also believe that a certain degree of rationalization or simplification from reality is also a requirement and an area in Solid Scale that has an advantage.
Cliff.

Mark I was going to mention this restored engine,you will be amazed to know that the original carburettor was missing so what does he do ? well cast his own and make the parts to fit it ! after months of adjustments the engine is now running smoothly,apprently it sounds magnificent.
Barry.

Quote from: Balsabasher on November 13, 2011, 08:35:38 PM
Mark I was going to mention this restored engine,you will be amazed to know that the original carburettor was missing so what does he do ? well cast his own and make the parts to fit it ! after months of adjustments the engine is now running smoothly,apprently it sounds magnificent.
Barry.

Mark and Barry,

If you Google "Napier Lion" you will come up with a marvellous youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr1hUWDy3YA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr1hUWDy3YA)
video of the restored engine running on a trolley at Brooklands.  It sounds a lot smoother than a "Merlin" - admittedly less horses involved.  The film starts with the cameraman jumping with fright at the sound of the start-up and ends with what looks like a museum attendant telling the engineer to turn it down!!!

Will

A whole new dimension has been created with these running historic aero engines,now we can really re-live the sounds of times past and the work of these great engine designers comes alive again.
When he first discovered the motor it was literally a rusting hulk that had to be dismantled piece by piece,cleaned up and re-installed.
I wonder how many more famous engines there are in barns and back yards that could be reatored by enthusiasts,more power to their skills.
And thank you Will for finding this gem for us all to share.
Barry.

Thanks for the link Will.  An amazing engine and the work to restore something like that must be tremendous.  You will note there are three updraft carbueretors on the front of the engine, one for each cylinder bank.  Other versions of the Lion have the carbueretors lined up across the rear of the engine.

My little Lion now has cylinder heads and intake manifolds.  I will have a go at "carving" the valve covers from aluminum. Then cam shaft drives at the rear of each head and exhaust stacks, the latter perhaps from heavy flat wire staples.

I have pictures of the Napier Lion in the record boat Miss Britain III which I took at Pitsea Museum before they allowed it to be put back in the Nelson Stick and String Emporium, otherwise known as the National Maritime Museum, where it now sits in a distant corner and you're not allowed photography.
I got all my info from Pitsea by being given the keys and told to lock up when I finished.
I could dig 'em out if anyone needs info on the Lion. I incorporated a complete model of it in the boat in 1/12th scale.

Martin

The Napier Lion V is finished except for some water lines that go on at final assembly.  It won't be attached to the airframe until after painting.   Valve covers are filed from solid aluminum.  Exhaust stacks are filed from a common wire paper clip.  I agree with Barry that there is a lot of satisfaction in making your own engine.   This is the first one I've done in 1/72 and I'm fairly satisfied with it.   There are 38 parts in the engine.

Mark

Now that looks really good Mark,and just see how it brings these vintage subjects alive,well worth the extra effort and trouble in creating these old motors,all you need is a bit of patience a few bits of scrap and with a study of the photographs you achive something like this,I really do like the results of your labours.
Barry.

Looking great Mark. Very nice work on that engine.

Lou

Yeah it's been fun.  The photos make the engine look pretty rough but in reality it's tiny and all the flaws that show in the photo aren't that noticeable even when I have my reading glasses on which I now use for all of my modeling.   I can polish out the scratches in those aluminum heads but it doesn't take much handling to get them all scratched up again.

Another photo of S1103, the subject of this model,  has been found.  That makes a grand total of three!  I have photos of other birds from the same serials batch though which are a great help.

Mark no need to apologise for close up macro photography that shows up every speck out of all proportion,we can see the care and research that has gone into this,it is certainly a subject that many would not even think of doing.
Barry.

Holy Crow Mark that is some engine! And in that scale it is indeed an accomplishment. Well worth it as a contribution to the hobby of solid scale. Sometime it would be nice if the group pursued a discussion concerning the place "viewing distance" has in solid scale model building. Each scale has its unique set of problems. Nice work.
Cliff.

Thanks Cliff, that means a lot coming from yourself.  It was your 1:72 Lynx engine in the Vedette that decided I should have a crack at crafting my little effort.  I'm not sure mine came out as nice as yours but it was fun doing the research and finding a drawing to work with.  My biggest problem with something like this is my eyesight....not nearly what it was when I started this model many years ago.  It was also your lead that I followed in making my engine on a stick.  That was a great help.  

I'd be happy if nobody looked at my model closer than about 18"

Mark

Cliff and Mark, when you find time, please post some comments (even if duplicates) to the Scale Aircraft Engine board at
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/SMF/index.php?topic=365.0

The Post was previously tittled Radial Engines, but I find that rather restrictive after seeing your work.

Lou

Hi Mark. Among a great number of topics you've touched on you seem to allude to "viewing distance" as it may affect various models. I suppose because I see a great number of faults in my efforts to date I believe that the group may have some important insights to this matter and hopefully we will hear more in the future. If not this site where else? Thanks for your contribution. Also with respect to engines you must remember that I had access to the very engine that was recovered from its watery grave and was able to make measurements from the remains. This made it a lot easier. But still a modeler, especially of older aircraft where the engine presents such a prominent part of the aircraft, must decide on how much rationalization or the suppression of detail he should allow especially given  how long it takes to build solid scale relative to a finite lifespan.  Another subject for the group.
As to eyes I've just got one eye surgery for cataracts done. I'm afraid to see what my models actually look like!

Cliff

While doing some research on another subject, I found this photo in the January 31, 1927 issue of Aviation magazine.  The gentleman on the right is holding a solid Fairey IIID of approximately the same scale as the one I'm building!  Looks pretty good except for excessive dihedral.  Lester D. Gardner was the president of the publishing company that published Aviation at that time.
Happy New Year everyone!

Mark

I must agree, it is amazing what you will find while doing research. I believe that HAWK has some statement to the effect that modelling research lead to personal growth.

Lou

http://home.comcast.net/~szee1a/Al_overcast/Al_overcast.html

The above email address - if you gentlemen are able to receive it - is of interest to all modelers and is intended to make a bit more concrete my sincere Wishes for a Happy New Year!
Cliff.

And to you and everyone else here as well Cliff,the B-17 Montage brings home and highlights a few things,the cramped conditions inside that fuselage,the sharp edges of the metal pieces,the fire power and that poor tail gunners job must have been very lonely and dangerous,note the duplicated flying control cables all part of the Flying Fortresse's ability to keep flying after crucial areas had been hit by flak,a true piece of aviation history still flying.
Barry.