Started a 1/72 S.E.5a to be part of a trophy for a flying model competition. This thing is tiny! Won't be overly detailed but more like the old Skybirds models.
Quote from: Mark Braunlich on November 22, 2012, 03:20:10 AM
Started a 1/72 S.E.5a to be part of a trophy for a flying model competition. This thing is tiny! Won't be overly detailed but more like the old Skybirds models.
I tried a 1/72 SE5A last year (using Stevens' drawing from his "Scale Model Aircraft"). I lost heart after I went to check on the kids and the dog jumped on the table and decided the beautifullly carved fuselage was ideal dog-chew! I must get back to a replacement fuse soon so I can complete it. Like you say its small.
Will
Looking forward to your progress reports.
Lou
I've got the fuselage shaping almost complete...still need to make the trough in the main fuel tank for the Vickers gun.
Nice. Keep those photos coming.
Lou
Good start, what wood are you using?. Regards Paul.
Gun trough and 'pit hollowed out. No cockpit detail in this one, just a pilot. Buc, this fuselage is basswood, nice to work with.
Some minor progress, tailplane complete, radiator header tank and shutters (not shown) and Viper engine.
Mark,
It's looking good. How are you planning to do the undercamber, if at all. I tried filing out the undersurface in block form (as per Mr.Doylend) but it was pretty invisible and I'm not sure it was worth the effort at this scale. I thought about just carving out the undercamber near the wing tips where it would be visible but haven't tried it yet.
Regards
Will
Very nicely done Mark. Looking forward to the finished model.
Lou
Nothing too difficult about making the undercamber in the wing Will. Easier to do than to describe. Follow along:
1. 3/32" basswood sheet is marked with two parallel pencil lines to mark the location of the undercamber. As shown the trailing edge of the wing is along the edge of the sheet of wood and the lines are sufficiently long to make both wings....here about 9+1/4" long. The bit of drawing is shown wrong way about, that is, the trailing edge of the wing should be at the edge of the sheet of wood.
2. Using the pencil lines as guides, the wood is scraped with a half round wood rasp, creating a shallow trough between the lines.
3. The trough is sanded with bits of sand paper wrapped around a paint bottle.
4. The wing chord is measured at both ends of the 9+1/4" bit of sheet that's received the undercamber.
5. The wing stock is cut with a steel rule and a craft knife. Shaping the rest of the airfoil with rasp, files, and sandpaper is easy.
The full 9.25" length of the wing stock has been shaped and sanded to the RAF 15 aerofoil section and is ready to be made into upper and lower wing panels.
The new lower wing is trial fit to the fuselage wing saddle. Dihedral joints made by razor saw about 3/4 through the wing's thickness and then filling the groove with epoxy. I regret doing it this way due to lack of strength in the joint. Better to have used my old method of scoring the joint top and bottom and bending the dihedral in with aid of steam....Much stronger.
Looks great. With the addition of the top wing the strenght of the loint should be sifficient.
Lou
Yes it is tiny, Mark. But I'm of the opinion that what is required for "smaller" models is that we resort to a bigger scale in these cases - a fact that Solid Scale models may, and even are, expected to do.
This is I believe referred to as a problem of scale. Regardless I'm facing the same dilemma with a couple of models I'm thinking of doing.
However, your model is super so far.
Cliff.
Cliff,
As mentioned in my first post on this thread, this model will go atop a trophy for a flying model contest, at least that's the plan now. It's perfect size for that and I'm not doing a lot of detail, none in the cockpit, no wing ribs or rigging. It's just an old-school solid, probably the way I like them most.
I think old school solids are definately more attractive for beginners. I also like the look of them. They have that kind of folk art look about them.
Peter
Mark, I'm also of the opinion that the purpose defines the scale. In this regard your aim is perfectly compatible with the scale you have chosen - or has been dictated to you by old-school circumstances. Hopefully you may describe to me exactly what "old-school solid" means. I'm obviousy at a loss here.
Cliff.
Well I can't speak for Mark but to me an "old school solid" is capturing the spirit of the original solid model kits built during 1920s, 30s or 40s. It wasn't about building an extremely accurate scale model. It was about building something that looked cool and captured your imagination. Every time I build a model even now whether its solid, card or plastic. I still take it for a test flight around the room when it's done. Usually involving a barrel roll, complete with sound effects. Uh.... just don't tell me wife and kids they already think I'm nuts!
Peter
Not sure I can put into words what "old school" means to me. I just know it when I see it. As Peter says (very well BTW), it's not a lot of detail but somehow the model captures the subject's character and you know it wasn't made without a lot of skill and care. Best I can do. Great examples of "old school" for me are the many models of the Eugene Kettering collection that were (are?) on display at the USAF Museum in Dayton.
Here's the underside with the fuselage restored beneath the wing using a 9mm square of basswood and some filler. My putty filler of choice is now DAP Plastic Wood which is REALLY old school. You can find adverts for it in 1940s modeling magazines. Sets up really quickly and doesn't seem to shrink as much as Green Stuff.
Upper wing taking shape. Dihedral steamed in here....MUCH better way to go.
Welcome back Barry!
A lovely model Mark that really captures the feel of what these old early solid models were about,the amount of detail is just right in my opinion and the SE5A never fails to make into a most attractive subject,your ongoing build shots further enhance your subject matter and will certainly assist others in the future,well done in producing such a fine miniature that has lots of appeal.
Barry.
Upper wing finished.
Silver soldering up the u/c struts from brass strip.
Completed undercarriage struts from .016" brass.
Very nice Mark. I need to solder at some point
Peter
Soldering is one skill I never mastered. You on the other hand seem to have mastered it. Do you make house calls?
Lou
Quote from: lastvautour on January 11, 2013, 10:09:00 AM
Soldering is one skill I never mastered. You on the other hand seem to have mastered it. Do you make house calls?
Lou
I'm not a master at all. Masters soldering leaves the joint with almost no solder visible. I have been doing it since I was a kid, making undercarriages, fuel tanks, control lines, prop hub/shaft assemblies for flying models, the latter for rubber powered models. 100% self taught.
One thing I wanted to try with this model was the use of fibreboard to make the vertical tail. I once worked in the air tool industry and the blades of the air motors were made of this material; then it was linen fabric impregnated with phenolic resin. It may be the same today or the fabric may be some synthetic. Of course it is the material that Skybirds used for their tail surfaces in their later models.
It's fantastically tough stuff and difficult to cut with a knife....I resorted to a saw and files. The material here is .032" thick and I purchased it through the American mail order hardware firm McMaster-Carr. Paid about $6 for a square foot. It's available in many grades and thicknesses. Many of the early great solid modelers used it. The late great George Cox even made wings for his fantastic 1/48 solids from fibreboard.
The last photo shows the parts roughly shaped.....more finishing needed.
Very interesting Mark keep the photos coming!
Peter
That is great. It will give the illusion of fabric covered surfaces.
Lou
Lou,
See link: http://www.mcmaster.com/#phenolic-sheets/=l0neq2
I bought the Machineable Garolite LE.
I think you will find that in a lot of cases Fibreboard has been replaced in the auto industry by other materials,the main use today was in the making of fibre washers for such things as fuel pipe seatings ,but in many cases these have now reverted to nylon.
If anyone does know of a modern source of this material then I would like to know ?
Barry.
Barry,
You might want to try Tufnol in Birmingham, contact details in link:
http://www.tufnol.com/tufnol/default.asp
It appears the old stuff is still used in aircraft construction programs.
Undercarriage is on, just need to make the two bullet fairings that covered the bungee shock cords.
Very nice set up. The recipient of the trophy will be very pleased.
Lou
Tufnol was used at work quite a lot in the pattern makers shop for aircraft tooling and as Mark said on airtool vanes in our windy drills.
After a coat of Dupli-Color primer and rescribing some of the obliterated panel lines.
It's looks great Mark! The primer has brought out the detail. Can't wait to see it finished.
Peter
I agree with Peter. Mighty fine work indeed.
Lou
Well, Mark it certainly looks fine. I wish I knew as much about these materials as they were used in model making and "real MacCoy" aircraft, skybirds and some of the more famous modellers. Sometime perhaps you could consider a tutorial or other means to enlighten us old dudes. By the way, how do you intend to attach wheels to your model?
Cliff.
The only modeling I accomplished today was getting this stick of black walnut (?) to size and cutting out the propeller patten and getting it glued down straight. Odd as it sounds, that was enough. I did fix a leaky toilet today :).
What a lovely SE5A Mark,you have done the subject proud.
Barry.
Thank you gentlemen.
Here's the S.E.5a propeller blank ready for shaping of the blades. Small, isn't it?
Small but finely cut. Nice job so far.
Lou
Not the best photo but here's the finished airscrew.
Well done Mark. Your prop looks very realistic. Are you planning on having it rotate on the model?
Lou
Painting and decaling are proceeding. Markings represent one of the SE5As prepared for the Oxford vs Cambridge air race in July, 1921, G-EAXU being the overall winner of that race. Registration on the fuselage is masked and painted. The underwing markings are home brew decals.
Nice work on the markings Mark.
Lou
Hi, A very nice job, thanks for the info in all your post.
ATB Marsh.
Update photo. Tail has been painted Cambridge blue, aluminum radiator shutters have been fitted and a modified cast lead Skybirds pilot has been seated in the cockpit. The second photo shows the takeoff of the Cambridge team in the 1921 Oxford-Cambridge Air Race. The aeroplane being modeled is at far left in the photo.
Your details make it hard to believe it is a scratch built wooden model and not a plastic casting. Your skills are to be envied.
Lou
And what a different change from the usual RFC colours,the civilian SE5a's were used amongst other things for smoke writing in the sky for early advertising,the image had to be done in 'reverse' whilst flying via a small mirror ! there is a picture around of one writing 'Persil' in the clouds,my father remembered seeing one making an hash of the message,the pilot then put a puff of white smoke through the message in effect crossing it out ! the chap behind these operations was called Jack Savage,one of his modified aircraft G-EBIA hangs in the Science museum collection at Wroughton,UK,I helped with the restoration by providing some pictures a long time ago.
Barry.
Here's link to the competition for which this model is to be one of the awards.
http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php/topic,12955.0.html
Jack Savage was at the original 1921 race that this competition is based on. He appears in one of the photos at reply #82 on page 4.
More tiny bits. Here are the exhaust manifolds soldered up from brass wire before some paint goes on. The thick parts were gone over with a torch to give them a burnt metal look. The coin is a US dime ($0.10).
You did such great work with such delicate pieces.
Lou
A great looking model with some skillfull detail work. I like the colour scheme. Best regards Paul J.
Thought about stealing some wheels from a plastic kit but in the end I made these. Chucked 1" lengths of 5/16" dia wood dowel in my electric drill and went to work with files and sanding blocks. They look better for real than in this photo which is greatly magnified. The outside dia of the o-ring tyre is 9.5mm.
Great wheels. That will enhance an alreadty great model.
Lou
My S.E.5a is finished. Still need to complete the trophy.
The trophy winner will be highly please. I sure would. Your did a fantastic job Mark. Congratulations.
Lou
Wow what an awesome job! I would keep your plane and throw away the trophy if I won.
Peter
Excellent work Mark.
Gordon
Very Nicely Done.
Cliff.
Very impressive work Mark, regards Paul J.
;) :o ;D
Thank you for the compliments gentlemen. I hope you will approve of the completed Philcox Trophy. Philcox was the name of the pilot of this machine in the 1921 Oxford-Cambridge inter-collegiate air race. The figures are repainted Skybirds castings. Everything else is scratch except the o-rings used as tyres.
Cabane and undercarriage struts are brass, the interplane struts are bamboo.
Here the S.E.5a is shown with a solid 1/72 Gloster Grebe I built in 1998. Both airplanes designed by H.P. Folland.
Very nice indeed Mark, I'm sure the winner will be well pleased with the trophy, it looks very realistic with the grass and the figures. Regards Paul J.
The flying model competition for which this model was created as a trophy has been concluded. It's been great fun. You may read abou it here: http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?topic=12955.0
Mark, what a fantastic read. Magnificent photos and active participation by many made the article a winner. Your trophy presentation must have been the crowning event.
Lou