Back on the Saddle. Help needed.

[Rafael]

Hello, gents!!!

Long time no see. Real life and the stoopid job keep me away from the bench. But I'm back into it. Lurking in the Gallery's plans section I found this ID treasure trove, which, I mus say tempt me to build them all. I also have a disk-load of other subjects and I would like to build some of them. Studying what I could find in the libraries and the net, I found myself stuck on some items.

First one that comes to mind tonight is this: In these aforementioned plans, there's always the place where wings should be attached to the model. For example:

http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/F-3_NorthAmerican_P-51_plan.gif


http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/F-3_NorthAmerican_P-51_patterns.gif

but I want to build this:

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q14/rafaelgonzalez65/P-51HMustang3vp147-1.gif

In this last, the profile shows the wing dihedral in all its glory, and I can't for the love of god figure out how to transfer the wingroot to the profile, in order to start cutting wood. Am I missing something here? What am I doing wrong?

Thanks beforehand,

Rafa

[lastvautour]

Welcome back Rafa. Remember how we cut the fuselage/wing of the Convair Charger as well as how we fit the engine boom. This is the same thing. The picture shows one way of assembly. I always do it the way we did the Charger. I believe Dave has a post showing how he made the P-51B (yours is a D) in that scale. I will search for it tomorrow and report back to you. As for now, this old fellow is ready for bed. Night all!

[Balsabasher]

Hello Rafael,basically you have two options on any mid wing monoplane like this,cut the blank for the fuselage as normal,likewise cut the wing either as one piece,or two pieces if you wish to assist the grain direction and to assist carving,now decide if you are going to make the wing fit as one whole,or in two pieces,if you do the former then you will need to remove a fair chunk of fuselage to accomodate the wing itself,then add the wing and rebuild the parts that were removed by trial and error fitting,if you opt to make the wing in two pieces then some kind of pinning arrangement will need to be done,I use anything from oval or wire nails to brass tubing and drill straight the way through the side of the fuselage inserting the pins with overhang either side,the beauty of this system is that you can incorporate the dihedral angle into the wings via those joiners which can be bent and also sand the angle into the wings for the dihedral angle as well,with the solid one piece wing the dihedral angle needs to be incorporated first before join up usually by cracking the wing and filing a bevel,then closing up with adhesive into a simple jig,you also need to angle the fuselage best you can where the wing meets up.
There is yet another way which involves making only a portion of the wing where it joins with the fuselage,ie some kind of tongue that slots from below,that way means minimal wood removal to place the wing into position,the tongue can be cut from either each wing panel or if cut as one piece the tongue goes right the way through.
Either way involves a bit of mark one eyeball as you carve away the gap,thats the way I do things anyway and it works fine for me,we all have variations on the way that things are done as we adapt to problems along the way.
Best of luck,Barry aka Balsabasher.

[dave_t]

Is this what you are looking for? See attached drawing...

[lastvautour]

Rafa, I stand corrected on your P-51H (not D) Either way, my search for the article came up blank.

For dave T - You once had a photo of the progress shots of your mustang carvings that I cannot find here. Did you remove it or is my mind going south?

Lou

[lastvautour]

Mind still in the great white north. Found the drawing, but I guess i must have imagine the article. Anyway, here is how to put a Mustang together the Dave T way.

http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-4148

[Rafael]

Welcome back Rafa. Remember how we cut the fuselage/wing of the Convair Charger as well as how we fit the engine boom. This is the same thing. The picture shows one way of assembly. I always do it the way we did the Charger. I believe Dave has a post showing how he made the P-51B (yours is a D) in that scale. I will search for it tomorrow and report back to you. As for now, this old fellow is ready for bed. Night all!

I suspected as much Lou. I will study the old thread again to relearn the stuff.

Hello Rafael,basically you have two options on any mid wing monoplane like this,cut the blank for the fuselage as normal,likewise cut the wing either as one piece,or two pieces if you wish to assist the grain direction and to assist carving,now decide if you are going to make the wing fit as one whole,or in two pieces,if you do the former then you will need to remove a fair chunk of fuselage to accomodate the wing itself,then add the wing and rebuild the parts that were removed by trial and error fitting,if you opt to make the wing in two pieces then some kind of pinning arrangement will need to be done,I use anything from oval or wire nails to brass tubing and drill straight the way through the side of the fuselage inserting the pins with overhang either side,the beauty of this system is that you can incorporate the dihedral angle into the wings via those joiners which can be bent and also sand the angle into the wings for the dihedral angle as well,with the solid one piece wing the dihedral angle needs to be incorporated first before join up usually by cracking the wing and filing a bevel,then closing up with adhesive into a simple jig,you also need to angle the fuselage best you can where the wing meets up.
There is yet another way which involves making only a portion of the wing where it joins with the fuselage,ie some kind of tongue that slots from below,that way means minimal wood removal to place the wing into position,the tongue can be cut from either each wing panel or if cut as one piece the tongue goes right the way through.
Either way involves a bit of mark one eyeball as you carve away the gap,thats the way I do things anyway and it works fine for me,we all have variations on the way that things are done as we adapt to problems along the way.
Best of luck,Barry aka Balsabasher.

Thanks for the tips, Barry. I like the two-piece wing for a project I plan to implement with this model, which is molding and casting, so I can have multiple copies of my airplane flying from the same stand. But first, I have to have an airplane. Trial and error will suffice, I think, too. The tongue-in-fuselage looks very promising, also, since that way I could also facilitate assembly of final products.

Mind still in the great white north. Found the drawing, but I guess i must have imagine the article. Anyway, here is how to put a Mustang together the Dave T way.
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-4148

That's what I was talking about! this approach is very illustrative, Lou and Dave. I may take it from there, too.

Oh! and, Dave, that diagram shows the very core of my nightmare. Is that airfoil profile based on documentation or is it guesswork? I ask, not because I am a stickler for accuracy, far from it, -I intend to make an ID model resembling the original subject- but because I am curious.

Thanks a lot, fellows, this is going to be lots of fun for me, because I have always wanted to have a P-51. Next will be a "B" model with a Malcolm Hood. And the list goes on and on.

Saludos,

Rafa

[dave_t]

Rafa, I used the correct airfoil for the P-51H and here is how I did that.

1) This link gives you the airfoil type for hundreds of aircraft-
http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/aircraft.html

2) This link has graphic plots of many many airfoils, look for the GIF files-
http://www.ae.illinois.edu/m-selig/ads/coord_database.html

3) Here is another airfoil link for the common NACA types (choose the "shape" buttons to see the drawings)-
http://www.ds-cats.com/~kurisawa/aeronautics/Airfoils/01-0027.html

Using photo-editing software I pasted the airfoil into the P-51 3-view.