I have several of the US Navy ID model plan sets, and have started a category in the gallery to store them as I scan them in. For starters, you can see models B-1 through B-3.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_B-1_Curtiss_SBC-4_plan.gif)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-925 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-925)
The album (only one so far) is at:
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/thumbnails.php?album=100 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/thumbnails.php?album=100)
The images are 300 dpi Gif format, black/white image. Some of the pattern sheets (such as B-2, the Martin PBM-1) are quite large, 11x17 inch sheets. The image is huge, but the file is only 247 kb. You will probably need to download the full-scale image to your local machine to view it properly.
Garet
Hi Garet,
I've also got a bunch of the ID models posted on my "ID" page http://www.ualberta.ca/~khorne/solid/spotter/spotter.html (http://www.ualberta.ca/~khorne/solid/spotter/spotter.html) which in turn is part of my "Solid Shop" page http://www.ualberta.ca/~khorne/solid/solid.html (http://www.ualberta.ca/~khorne/solid/solid.html)
Quite a few nice plans throughout... I have all but one set from the Navy series so if you are lookin' for sumpin' give me a shout.
Kenny
Thanks, Kenny! I downloaded your plans a while back, but I'd forgotten where I'd gotten them.
Garet
I've had requests for B-17, B-25 and Consolidated Coranado plans. Kenny, Feel free to post your plansin the gallery.
B-25 is plan E-3
B-17E is plan A-12
Consolidated PB2Y-3 is plan A-7
I should have these three plans, and will put them next in the queue to scan.
Kenny, I think your plans were PDF. If you upload them as PDF, they will upload fine, but will have a generic thumbnail. I can fix that after the plans are uploaded.
Garet
Garet,
we should talk and see how many of these we can put together. As you all know, I'm not the fastest gun in the west, but we could chip away at this lovely collection.
Kenny
Good idea; I'll send you an e-mail off-forum.
Garet
I moved this discussion to the General forum. The Gallery Updates section is in general read-only, which I'd forgotten.
Garet
I'm forwarding a message that Dave tried to post when this discussion was in the updates section:
Quote from: davetunison
Garet,
Is there some reason I can't post a reply to the ID model discussion you and Ken are having in "gallery updates"?
I have a list of the drawings, although not sure how complete it is-
Set A
A-1 Brewster F2A-3
A-2 Grumman F4F-4
A-3 Douglas SBD-3
A-4 Vought OS2U-1
A-5 Douglas TBD-1
A-6 Consolidated PBY-5
A-7 Consolidated PB2Y-3
A-8 Bell P-39D
A-9 Curtiss P-40E
A-10 Northrop A-17A
A-11 Douglas A-20A
A-12 Boeing B-17E
A-13 Douglas DC-3
A-14 Messerschmitt Me 109 [Bf 109]
A-15 Heinkel He 111
A-16 Sento Ki-001
A-17 Baku Ki-99
A-18 Mitsubishi Type 96 Bomber [G3M1-3 Nell]
A-19 Supermarine Spitfire
A-20 Vickers Armstrong Wellington
Set B
B-1 Curtiss SBC-4
B-2 Martin PBM-1
B-3 Brewster SB2A-1
B-4 Grumman JRF-4
B-5 Lockheed P-38E
B-6 Martin B-26C
B-7 Republic P-43
B-8 Consolidated B-24D
B-9 Lockheed Lodestar
B-10 Messerschmitt Me 110 [Bf 110]
B-11 Junkers Ju 87B
B-12 Junkers Ju 88A-1
B-13 Dornier Do 18K
B-14 Mitsubishi Type 96 Fighter [A5M1-4 Claude]
B-15 Nakajima Type 97 Torpedo Bomber [B5N1 Kate]
B-16 Nakajima Type 95 Observation Seaplane [E8N1]
B-17 Hawker Hurricane
B-18 Bristol Blenheim
B-19 Ilyushin I-16 [Polykarpov I-16]
B-20 Savoia Marchetti SM.82
Set C
C-1 Grumman F3F-2
C-2 Vought SB2U-3
C-3 Stinson L-1A
C-4 Boeing Clipper [Model 314]
C-5 Heinkel He 113
C-6 Saro Lerwick
C-7 Blackburn Skua
C-8 Boulton Paul Defiant
C-9 Handley Page Hampden
C-10 Fokker T-8-W
Set D
D-1 Curtiss SO3C-1
D-2 Curtiss SOC-3
D-3 Vultee A-31
D-4 Focke-Wulf Fw 190
D-5 Dornier Do 26
D-6 Mitsubishi Type 97 Light Bomber [Ki-30 Ann]
D-7 Mitsubishi Type 98 Light Bomber [Tachikawa Ki-36 Ida?]
D-8 Mitsubishi Type 98 Light Bomber
D-9 Short Stirling
D-10 Handley Page Halifax
Set E
E-1 Vought F4U-1
E-2 Grumman TBF-1
E-3 North American B-25B
E-4 Martin A-30
E-5 Bristol Beaufort
E-6 Bristol Beaufighter
E-7 Short Sunderland
E-8 Heinkel He 115K-2
E-9 Mikado Type 98 (FIAT BR-20)
E-10 Kawanishi Type 97 [H6K5 Mavis]
Set F
F-1 Bristol Aeronautical LRQ-1
F-2 North American SNJ-3
F-3 North American P-51
F-4 Curtiss C-46
F-5 Focke-Wulf Fw 189
F-6 Focke-Wulf Fw 200K
F-7 Mitsubishi Type 0 Fighter [A6M5 Zeke]
F-8 Mitsubishi Type 1 Medium Bomber [G4M2 Betty]
F-9 DeHavilland Mosquito [D.H.98]
F-10 Avro Lancaster
Set G
G-1 Curtiss SB2C-1
G-2 Republic P-47D
G-3 Lockheed B-34
G-4 Messerschmitt Me 210
G-5 Junkers Ju 52
G-6 Nakajima Type 2 Fighter Floatplane [A6M2-N Rufe]
G-7 Aichi Type 99 Bomber [D3A1-2 Val]
G-8 Mitsubishi Type 0 Fighter [A6M1-8 Hamp]
G-9 Yakovlev YAK-4
G-10 Petlyakov PE-2
I'm lovin all the new plans you have been posting here lately, but once again I seem to be encountering an image resolution problem.
I hate to say it, but while the B-17 "plan" comes through beautifully, something seems to be messed up with the thumbnail for the B-17 "pattern". I'm running into the same trouble I had with the B-29 plan a while ago. When I click on the B-17 "pattern" thumbnail all I get is a blank gray screen, and if I try to save the thumbnail image to my hard drive and tweak it with Photoshop, the best I get is a small, fuzzy image that comes through at 72 DPI. Can you post the direct photo link to this "pattern," as you did earlier with the B-29?:
Also running into the same problem with the A-7_Consolidated_PB2Y-3_pattern...
Keep up the good work! This is a terrific site. Should keep me in projects until they slam the lid on me!
Fingers,
I noticed that all of the files you are having trouble with are the large sheets, so perhaps there is some issue with your browser not liking to display them. The way the gallery uses javascript may be a factor.
I came up with a little experiment to see what is going on. I put a direct link on the B-17 pattern gallery page:
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-727 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-727)
Please try clicking on the link (directly below the thumbnail), and also try downloading it as a linked file to your hard drive and let me know which methods work.
Here are the direct links for the larger patterns, which you can download straight to your hard drive:
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/A-12_Boeing_B-17E_patterns.gif (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/A-12_Boeing_B-17E_patterns.gif)
(this is the same link that is on the gallery page above)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/A-7_Consolidated_PB2Y-3_patterns.gif (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/A-7_Consolidated_PB2Y-3_patterns.gif)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/B-2_Martin_PBM-1_patterns.gif (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/B-2_Martin_PBM-1_patterns.gif)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/B-6_Martin_B-26C_patterns.gif (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/B-6_Martin_B-26C_patterns.gif)
Kenny Horne is working on some other plans, and we hope to fill in the collection on his web site as well as in the gallery. After we get a full set as GIF images here, I plan to make PDF summary files with a number of plans in each file. Also, I will probably make a PDF summary that has the larger images chopped up to fit pages that you can paste together. Kenny's site will most likely have individual plans in letter-size PDF format, consistent with the other ones he already has there. There is the Letter Size/A4 issue; I'll have to see how the margins work out. The originals seem to use the Canadian ( ;))standards for paper (8.5 x 11 inches).
Garet
Yes, Garet, that's done it! I think it 's a javascript or firewall issue on my end. When you rpovide the links directly below the thumbnails, I can right-click-save to my hard drive, then open the image separately.
Incidentally, I have the complete ID models B and F Series plans, if that a help to you...
Thanks for testing that for me. I may be able to put the links into the file description on the gallery, as I did for the B-17.
Thank you for the plans offer. Kenny and I have a pile were working on at the moment, but we'll send out a general call if we find we are missing any.
Garet
Hi Garet,
Nice ID Plans. Certainly wish I was aware of them before I started my Mariner. As it was I had to work from Jane's very small 3 views in one of their older issues.
And while I'm at it I would like to commend all on the effort that has gone into setting up the new site. It's truly wonderful.
Cliff.
Garet, As a collector of plans for aircraft, I never saw a collection of ID plans. I will admit that I never made a concerted effort to find rare or obsolete books, what are we talking about here?
The list of aircraft above seems familiar, but I can't think of a single place to find them all.
I looked over the list and decided that I don't need any of the listed plans, just wondering where they came from.
Ted Billings
The plans I have are reprints available from the Smithsonian Institution (specifically, the National Air and Space Museum). Their link is:
http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/arch/collections/techdraw/navyrecog.cfm (http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/arch/collections/techdraw/navyrecog.cfm)
These plans were for 1/72 scale aircraft recognition plans and were distributed by the US Navy Bureau of Aeronautics in World War II. Thousands of school children made these models, to be shipped to Allied forces for training. I even found an article about the plans being translated to Portuguese and used in Brazil. It would be really neat if someone could turn up one of those plans!
There are a large number of aircraft, though some were based on rough data and may not represent true aircraft. There are, for instance, two plans for the Mitsubishi Type 98 Light Bomber, one of which was probably the Tachikawa Ki-36 Ida. And of course, the Heinkel He 113 was really a propaganda ploy.
Comet produced a set of kits based on the plans, with minor changes made to the drawings. They were also reproduced in a few books at the time.
I've wanted to draw a modern plan in the style of the old ID plans, and have done most of the work for a Yak-1000 this way, but I still haven't finished the drawings. We termed this a "Neo-ID Plan" back on the MSN forum.
Garet
One of the finest references to the ID model program can be found at
http://www.commercemarketplace.com/home/CollectAir/Museum.html (http://www.commercemarketplace.com/home/CollectAir/Museum.html)
This is Steve Remigton's site. I'm not sure if Steve is part of the new forum or not, but he would pop his head into the old space from time to time, and always with some valuable input. Anyway, his entire site is worthwhile reading.
Kenny
Another great part of this program was the instructions that were all part of it. These models were meant to be built (as opposed to so many of the pre-war kits/plan sets that were simply meant to be sold. It's a wonder that this hobby survived as long as it did as a commercial enterprise. All I can say is that depression kids were made of stern stuff!)
(http://www.ualberta.ca/~khorne/solid/sm-manual.jpg)
This is the cover of the main manual. This along with the poster tells you all you need to know to build one of these. Of course it is also a sound foundation for any solid modelling.
You can check these out at http://www.ualberta.ca/~khorne/solid/solid.html (http://www.ualberta.ca/~khorne/solid/solid.html)
Kenny
Ok, now it rings a bell.
Pictures from operations buildings during the war show ID models hanging from the ceiling, I recall seeing some of these models as a child. Recently I was offered an almost complete collection of the bakelite ID models from a man in Tenn, he wanted around five thousand for them, they may be worth that, but that's a lot of scratch. Also, the bakelite models are hard to keep from what I hear, they deteriate in the wrong conditions.
Thanks for the comeback, Ted Billings
Garet:
Can you post the direct links for the larger images of the most recent ID plans? My javascript problem still prevents me from accessing them via the thumbnail. The smaller images come across fine, but the bigger ones are NG. I'm principally interested in the Lancaster, C-46 and FW Kondor patterns. Thanks...
Hey Mr. Fingers,
We haven't got it all complete or pretty but you can find the Lanc (F-10), the Curtiss C-46 (F-4), and the Kondor (F-6) at
http://www.ualberta.ca/~khorne/solid/spotter/spotter.html (http://www.ualberta.ca/~khorne/solid/spotter/spotter.html)
The Kondor isn't a great copy though... some of the templates didn't make onto the copy that I have :-( You can still make the model, you just have a bit of guessing.
Kenny
Fingers,
I added a file link to each of the ID plan pages that are on the gallery, so you can right-click to "download link" to your local machine. Since it was a cut and paste operation, there may be a few that I didn't get quite right. If anyone finds any of those, please let me know.
I did upload new plans and patterns for B-1 and B-3. The original files were not exactly 8.5 x 11 inches (2550 by 3300 pixels), so I fixed the margins. For anyone trying to get the sizes right, I tried to make all of the drawings some multiple of 8.5 inches or 11 inches (at 300 dpi) as are the originals. The larger drawings might be a 11 x 17 or 8.5 x 22 inches, for example. This is important for gifs, since these files do not include the resolution (dots per inch, or dpi). Kenny's PDF versions do have the scaling correct, since PDFs retain that information; for PDFs, you just have to make sure you print full-size instead of "scale to fit".
The gif files here are a little different than Kenny's PDFs, since I made some minor edits, mostly to adjust the margins and do rotations. Eventually, we plan to have several versions of the same image, which are all essentially identical files. There will be:
individual GIFs in the SMM gallery
PDF for each airplane containing plan and patterns in Kenny's site
PDF file containing sets of plans in the SMM gallery
But this will take a while :)
Garet
Kenny: MISTER Fingers? I started looking around for my father! But thank you, Kenny. I hadn't checked your sight in a little while and didn't know all those winderful ID plans were there. Many thanks, friend!
And Garet: Thank you again for the links. You guys are going to help push me into an early retirement!
Garet,
I see you have all the files now posted! Awesome work dude, this is really cool. OK gang, I guess it's time to start picking subjects and start carving. I've got a whole shwack load in my head right now but I think I'll start easy. A couple come to mind that seem so in the spirit of young American kids building planes of their heroes in early 1942: The Curtiss P-40 and the Bell P-39 Airacobra. Both were flawed aircraft for thier time, but they probably captured the spirit of these kids beter than any other. I'll probably start there, but I haven't comitted block to saw yet, so...
Kenny,
ps. from my small part I've played in this project, I'm starting to get an idea how much work you and Ray have put into this new forum. I know that Lou has been lurking around too, so thanks to you too buddy.
Yes, the ID model sets are finally complete! I decided to make a final push late last night to get the last sets done. Many thanks to Kenny and Ray for helping me with this. We still need to add the descriptions and the direct file links (so we have a way around the dreaded "gray gif rectangle" issue), but at least the files are on the gallery.
We are missing two sheets, so if anyone has these, please get in touch with me:
G-9 Yak-4 assembly diagram
F-6 Focke_Wulf_FW-200K templates (right edge missing, and there is a misalignment in the drawing)
Garet
PS Lou was the wonderful individual who moved over all the photos from the old forum.
The ID plans are complete! Set G arrived from the Smithsonian today, and so I was able to post the assembly diagram for G-9, the Yak-4.
Kenny and I are preparing PDF versions of the plans for him to post at his web site. These will have both full-size and "chopped" versions of the larger plan sheets. Stay tuned!
Garet
I thought you all might be interested in these photos from Life Magazine (available through Google Images):
(http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=1442340c6f9b754c_landing)
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=airplane+model+source:life&imgurl=1442340c6f9b754c (http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=airplane+model+source:life&imgurl=1442340c6f9b754c)
(http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=863620d32866d7c4_landing)
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=airplane+model+source:life&imgurl=863620d32866d7c4 (http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?q=airplane+model+source:life&imgurl=863620d32866d7c4)
What a small world. The pictures of the boys making the recognition models were taken in Pottstown, PA, not twenty miles from my home. Today however, it's not anywhere close to the Pottstown of those days. The Great Society made sure of that.
I use to dress like that for school, including knickers !
Going through my files, I came across an aircraft spotter's chart that was to be used by the military and Civilian Observation Corps............the mantra to be used was,......"W E F T O" Wings-Engine-Fuselage-Tail-Other.....always in this order.
Spotters were suppose to quickly fill in a gridded report sheet that listed all the sub headings.........
WINGS;Ailerones & Flaps, Tip Shape, Dihedral, Outline, Span, Nationality
Engine; Nacelle Shape, location, and so forth.
The NAVY would offer certificates of honorary rank based on the number of models submitted by anyone and accepted by the inspectors.
The Germans and the Japanese were also heavily into reconition models.
So much to do, so little time....................The Spider