Hi All,
Quote from: Will on November 08, 2013, 08:00:36 AM
I cut out the mainplanes and tail feathers for a 1/72 BE4 last night. Set myself a deadline of the local placky Modellers competition in 2 weeks! Army Aeroplane no.204 was first to (force-) land locally 100 years ago.
One week to go. At the weekend I tried wiping sanding sealer on with paper towels to save brush cleaning - seemed to work. Then I carved a fuselage on Monday night, reasonably happy but will need to chisel out a cockpit area, will have to "base" it on the BE1 or BE2 as I've only found 2 distant photos of the '4 (if I do any detail at all). Wheels carved yesterday out of 2 laminates of 1/32 balsa, they're OK but the dished covers may need revisiting. Totally blew the budget (£0.00) by buying some 1/32 brass rod for the undercarriage! Tonight's challenge is the motor and cowling (very simplified, a la USN-ID radials probably).
All parts so far in balsa except for the 1/32 basswood rudder. It won't be a masterpiece, but it might show the plasticators there's more than opening boxes :o.
Cool project Will. Good luck with it. I had these photos saved and while the detail isn't good, at least they're a decent size.
Wonderful subject Will,this aeroplane has real character to it.
Barry.
Will, do you want a project board to post your projects?
Lou
Looks like you have been busy.
Quote from: lastvautour on November 13, 2013, 06:50:17 PM
Will, do you want a project board to post your projects?
Lou
Yes, please. There's a few other early types I'd like to have a try at, once this is finished.
I passed on your request to Garet. Once set up I will move this post to your board. I am very happy to see building. If I can assist in any manner, please feel free to ask.
Lou
You are all set up for all those models you want to make. I tried finding some infor on your RAF BE4 and man there is very little info on that one. One comment that peeked my interest was that the aircraft exterior was identical to the BE3.
Lou
Thanks for setting up my board Lou and Garet.
All parts now made up and currently being painted. Burnt my fingers soldering up the undercarriage. Just need to finish painting and assemble. Hopefully it will come together in time for Wednesday evening.
I will write up more and load some photos afterwards.
Cheers
Will
Look forward to seeing your model Will,you have obviously worked very hard to do what you have done.
Barry.
Thanks for letting us in on your BE4. I too, am looking forward to seeing your work.
Lou
Another coat of "clear doped linen" at lunchtime at work. Due to time constraints I've had to dredge the goop from the bottom of the tin to get reasonable covering power!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-D0gZIT1B52U/UoofiJXmvGI/AAAAAAAAAE0/w-7_pkByi8I/s800/BE4-painting.jpg)
Will
Will, you had enough goop. Seeing the photos, it looks great.
Lou
Great work Will,stretching that dope worked.
Barry.
The next job will be fitting the undercarriage. This is likely to need more tolerance and concentration than lunchtime at work allows. I thought you might like to see some of the work to date.
Inspiration
A month ago the local paper's "100 Years Ago" column recorded the first landing locally of an aeroplane. This was obviously big news as earlier columns recalled the first 'plane being seen flying over, and a local man who built a model aircraft (a twin-stick pusher flying type rather than a scale model).
The pilot and passenger had to put down due to engine trouble. The paper said it was near a village pub, whether this helped them choose the actual field is unrecorded.
The Aircraft
The plane was no.204, the crew being Army. I thought it would be a BE2, but a check in J.M.Bruce's "Britain's First Warplanes" at the city library (I subsequently got a copy on Amazon for one penny!) showed it to be the BE4, twin of the BE3. The follow-on design (BE8) development of rotary-engined plane was known as "the Bloater", presumably due to its corpulence compared to the svelt BE2s, so you can imagine the BE4 is not the most beautiful aircraft. The Putnam book of the Royal Aircraft Factory provided a drawing of the BE3 and some history. The crew landing locally may have been lucky as 204 later crashed fatally when the all moving rudder snapped off, an early victim of metal fatigue.
Modelling the BE4
Having seen the newspaper story, I thought it would be fun to build a model for the annual competition at the local model club. Unfortunately by the time I'd done the research there were only two weeks or so to go!
A closer look at the plans and photos showed that the fuselage was mid-mounted between the bays adding a complication to mounting. I decided to build the model from balsa as it was to hand and I can carve it quietly in the living room alongside the rest of the family. The parts were cut out (I glue-stick photocopies onto the wood) and given a couple of coats of sanding-sealer (needless to say that's NOT done in the living room!).
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-11Pm0LMKqq4/UotnAtjvsWI/AAAAAAAAAGM/7mxSoL6BRqY/s800/BE4-upper%2520wing%2520ribs.JPG)
Ribbing in progress - I cut 1mm strips of sticky address labels and stuck them in place, then sealed in with a coat of cellulose dope. Possibly the label-glue and dope didn't get on as a couple of ribs moved around or came adrift, but are now firmly stuck.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QfHvBlQehYI/Uotm30yr-MI/AAAAAAAAAGM/CtA9ERCrXvo/s800/BE4-primed.JPG)
Parts primed using aerosol car paint. The prop is carved from laminated coffee stirrers - free with free coffee from the local supermarket! The blade shape may be a bit wide and the pitch is too fine, but it looks like a prop. The BE3 had a two-blader but at least one photo of the BE4 shows a 4 blade.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-xaWGp3quQv0/Uotm_xYt8jI/AAAAAAAAAGM/OXE-HtyUW7Q/s800/BE4-ucart%2520jigs.JPG)
The undercarriage was soldered up from 1/32" brass rod on this former/jig as I couldn't work out the relative angles and lengths in 3d any other way. I still burnt my fingers holding the last member in place to stop the rest falling apart as the heat went round the earlier joints. The tail skid was complicated on BE types, but provided steering. Unlike the main undercart, this soldered together easily first time.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LdxjHbmZSmw/Uotm_fQNf5I/AAAAAAAAAGM/cS6bumCk10c/s800/BE4-lower%2520wing%2520on.JPG) (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-E6I5G-d-VrE/UotnBTl1k0I/AAAAAAAAAGM/ppVGRjFiPq4/s800/BE4-wings%2526rudder.JPG) (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-A3mkMjSVGcM/UotnBa_qPLI/AAAAAAAAAGM/sYAvF-9761A/s800/BE4-wings-front.JPG)
Fuselage and main planes joined together. The struts alongside the fuselage had to be bent slightly in situ to get the two wings parallel and at right angles to the fuselage. I know I should have used a jig to do all this but it would have got in the way of moving 2 wings, the fuselage and 12 struts all into position at the same time - a third hand might have been useful though. The rudder is 1/32" basswood, the serial is pasted on with Klear, hopefully it will snuggle down.
One day to go...
Will
Looks good Will. Nice to see someone doing models like this (1:72 biplanes). Are you going to rig it? I just bought some 42ga copper wire for that purpose....as small as a human hair and flexible enough to "sew" thru tiny holes.
Will, your BE4 is pretty good so far. Hope you get it in for the competition on time. I particularly liked the fact that you were using balsawood, sanding-sealer, an aerosal can of car paint and the method you chose for ribbing. In fact I sent a copy of your method to myself for future reference. But I was somewhat hesitant in your success in employing the car paint as sealer. I tried it once but at the time it appeared to sand right off in my experiment. I just elected to return to the old faithful store-bought "sanding sealer" made from Dope. Dope seems to have a degree of staying power that has protected models over the years - and there has been a lot of them.
Cliff.
That is certainly a very interesting idea Mark. Forty-two gauge copper wire "as small as a human hair" is definitely worth looking into.
Cliff.
This is working up to be a fantastic model. I am not up to soldering anything so I am limited in doing that type of undercarriage, however you have the knack. I look forward to some more photos.
Lou
Note to Cliff,use 'High build car primer' its totally different to the standard grey primers,it self levels into crevices and sands up like a dream.
Barry.
Great little model Will,sometimes its good to accept a time challenge like this,its amazing what can be done if you put your mind to things,you have done very well.
Barry.
Thanks Barry for the tip. I've taken the liberty of mailing your info to myself. But I wonder if the different primer that you've suggested will have the staying power of Dope?
Cliff.
Thanks for your kind comments guys.
Mark - I don't think I'll be rigging for tonight's competition! I may try later on, the fine copper wire sounds interesting, I'd be more likely to use fishing line or invisible thread. I understand the layout of full-bracing for a 2-bay biplane (I have the RAF Museum book with the diagram for the BE2c), but can't work it out for wing-warping, where presumably there's less triangulation of forces!
Cliff - I used real cellulose sanding sealer to get a reasonable finish to the balsa (a few more coats on the fuselage sides would help, but I needed to get on). The straight cellulose dope I used on the ribs was a bit thick as it was at least 35 years old from trying to do some rubber-powered planes when I was at school.
The car spray primer I used was just a very thin blow-over as primer. I've tried the high-build type Barry mentioned but it obscures the details more, so I'd only use it for a slick, smooth prototype.
Lou - my soldering skills are just about "adequate" for wiring or joining odd metal bits together, however I have model railway friends who build superb models by soldering etched metal kits. The rules are get it hot, clean and think about the order so heating the later bits doesn't unsolder what you did earlier!
Barry - you are right about the time challenge, without a deadline I may not have got started on this model...
Regards
Will
Luckily the undercarriage went on with no problems, more or less straight and level.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Kz2BT8yeEgE/Uoy1m9ik-4I/AAAAAAAAAHE/byn4uM6Cvnw/s800/BE4-ucart%2520in%2520place.JPG)
A few dings and gouges needed to be filled with green putty.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rAcnT39QHR0/Uoy1gvcK2vI/AAAAAAAAAHE/vMyOrMw6_Zg/s800/BE4-filler.JPG)
Then another coat of linen colour, brown for the struts and undercarriage, and odd touch-ups elsewhere. The finish isn't as good as other models but then previously I've put on 6 coats of sanding sealer instead of the two I had time for on the BE4.
I decided a base would help presentation, so I found a concrete paint sample at work (the paint's on a square of MDF). I attached some grass mat and a label with double sided tape.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-B3iHwwW-PtU/Uoy1gNhWMLI/AAAAAAAAAHE/4p4c4mU-B2Y/s800/BE4-based.JPG) (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZH07WPDTjfI/Uoy1ZAFMx7I/AAAAAAAAAHE/ybvGwQF_wy4/s800/BE4-based-low.JPG)
The model aircraft sitting on the base. I guess its possible this is the only 1/72 model ever made of the BE4!
When I looked this morning there were a few brass spots grinning through on the struts and u/c so I will have to touch up those before heading off to the club tonight. Overall I'm pleased with how its turned out, I'm sure the next one will be improved. I would try different material for the struts to get a better profile, the wheels could be lightened somewhat, and try drilling right through the fuselage to provide a proper cockpit rather than just gouging out a black-painted recess - these very early BEs had a large open bathtub for two, apparently it was very draughty.
Regards
Will
Looks nice Will. Do the model railroad shops have flat brass strip available? I use that for strut material, suitably filed to streamline it somewhat. You can also try flattening copper wire, not easy to do and keep it straight but it works for short struts like you have in the cabane and u/c.
Fantastic Will. You should be the envy off everyone there. Congratulations on an excellent build.
Lou
Will what a delightful little model you have created,regarding finish this is not a supersonic high polished type so it in fact looks better for a bit of grain just like the full sized biplanes did,many WW1 types show saggy fabric and pulled in trailing edges where the dope has taken effect,I love the shpe of the subject matter and that superb nose shape,well done !
Barry.
Will, where do you store your photos. I would like to get a bigger image of your finished BE4
Lou
Lou,
Right-click on the image in the post and select "Open image in new tab". A new tab should appear at the top of your screen---click on that to open a larger version of the photo.
Mark, I tried your approach and it did not work for me .
Lou
Quote from: lastvautour on November 23, 2013, 01:38:16 PM
Will, where do you store your photos. I would like to get a bigger image of your finished BE4
Lou
Lou, pictures are linked from picasa.
Will
I tried finding your photos on Picasa but did not have any luck. Can you tell the title of some of your photos.
Lou
Lou,
I think this is a direct link:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7oB9padhWQ3IO13UeNK3gdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink (https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7oB9padhWQ3IO13UeNK3gdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink)
If not PM me and I will forward the jpg file.
Will
Thank you Will. The images are crystal clear and can be enlarged to see the details. Congratulations on an excellent BE4.
Lou
Hi Guys,
This appeared in our local newspaper this week:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EGc8YrZ8eAM/UpiS9Qc27II/AAAAAAAAAII/FQFTty3SAWk/s800/BE4-advertiser_2013-11-29.jpg)
I think I should have smiled a bit more but I was probably worried the plane might fall off the base or take off in the wind!
Regards
Will
PS In a typical application of Murphy's Law of Modelling, I've now found a really nice clear photo of no.204 in another book I forgot to check, where she now has a two-bladed airscrew, which would have halved the work on that aspect. Which particular type the aeroplane had fitted on the trip to Romsey would be a challenge to find out!
Congrats Will!
That has turned out to be a nice model indeed!
Congratulations Will your famous!
Peter
Feels good to be published. Congratulations. Let us hope that someone in your area will want to join us.
Lou
Well done Will ! showing the solid modelling flag is really good for the hobby,what an enjoyable and successful exercise this has been.
Barry.
That is a very nice model and photo, Will. There appears to be a lot of history referred to in the accompanying article. Again an area in which plastics appear reluctant to compete. Congratulations Will. You've served SMM well.
Cliff.
Will,
Saw today this 1912 book about Hendon Aerodrome on ebay.....includes a view of 204 in flight.
The book may not realise very much as books at the moment are not holding their prices,what with Kindle's and other electronic devices the bookshops are heaving with unsold stock,I will always prefer book's for reference over such things,if its unsold what is the EBay number Mark please ?
Barry.
Barry,
It looks interesting but condition is poor for earlier parts:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V-RARE-The-LONDON-AERODROME-HENDON-Original-1st-Edition-catalogue-1912-/310813816220?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item485df2759c (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V-RARE-The-LONDON-AERODROME-HENDON-Original-1st-Edition-catalogue-1912-/310813816220?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item485df2759c)
There are 14 pages "supersized" available in the listing worth looking at. A couple of the photos I think recognise from other books
Will
This just showed up on my Facebook home page.....Lt Fox on 203.
Will its a friend of mine selling it,he has handled and purchased some of my models in the past,the damage looks like acid probably been in a garage or something like that ? certainly rare I have not seen another.
Barry.
Quote from: Balsabasher on December 11, 2013, 05:58:08 PM
Will its a friend of mine selling it,he has handled and purchased some of my models in the past**snip**
Barry.
The same vendor has some old built solids as well as boxed kits!
Will
More showing up on FB
Lieut. Gordon Bell, on Army biplane No. 204, with Capt. Dawes as passenger, just before leaving the Hendon Aerodrome in route for Farnborough. 1912
What a great historic picture Mark,the underslung strutted wing like the Bristol Fighter creates some problems for building on subjects like this.
Barry.
Barry,
The front cabane strut and the rearmost undercarriage strut could be made as one long continuous strut (I'd use brass) let into the side of the fuselage. I don't know if Will did it that way but that's how I would do it.
Thats a good idea Mark,never thought of that way but its logical thinking after all,its interesting how our brain takes in different ideas and thats all part of learning things.
Barry.
Thanks everyone for your kind remarks, especially to Mark for finding some more pictures.
The model provoked plenty of positive discussion at the local IPMS the other day, though it didn't place. My colleagues at work were impressed by the newspaper article, which has also been mentioned by the neighbours. My wife got into conversation about the plane with one of her friends while at the supermarket!
Will