Gentlmen,
A proposal. . .
As a way of bringing us as a group of artisans together in a meaningful and lasting way, I propose a group build the likes of which I don't believe has been undertaken by any modeling group. Yet could be a cornerstone and celebration of the ever shrinking divide among the nations of this world and a lasting legacy of our small group. This task will be undertaken once a year and will require a co-operation beyond myself and my small skill as a modeler.
I propose, the construction of an ocean liner, a symbol of commerce, peace, and grand times of days gone by. This liner will be built in many pieces, at an agreed upon scale from an agreed upon drawing all over this world, and sent to an agreed upon assembly point. Were it will be accepted and built by one of our finest, for donation to an agreed upon museum in the name of the Guild of Solid Model Memories. A signature card of each participant will be placed within the hull as well as notation of his contribution. Please post suggestions and comments in this string only. Construction will begin on January 1st 2010 for a completion on the same date the following year. :)
R.F.Bennett
P.S. Yes, I know we're not a Guild, Not yet :-*
Count this Eastern Canadian in. The maritimes have a long and proud history of ship building.
Lou
I'm in, representing North Carolina, USA.
This is going to require a great deal of planning in 2009. The curator of the US Naval Academy wrote a guide of construction standards for ships to be displayed there. Some of the info in that guide may be helpful to us. I will write a construction standard proposal and see who yells at me. We can massage it over time and come to an agreement. The construction standard will make the final assembler's job much easier as we all have different techniques that can come into collision with each other. Of course, some of the items in that guide will greatly depend on the final size of the ship. This proposal can be adjusted again when we have new information, i.e. size of ship, subject, etc.
This can be a lot of fun.
Ken Pugh
I'm in too.
I have seen this book and agree some kind of standard should be settled on. We will have to take into account the level of ability of all participants. So anyone who wants to help, can. I can cast small metal parts if someone can build the master. I cast them out of silver solder so they aren't harmful and they don't oxidize over time. Copious amount of photos should be taken and I'll try to get us some press when completed and assemble a small print on demand booklet for members to order. I would not be adverse to an experiment with a small, simpler subject. Perhaps a prototype to iron out the design. But the completed model should be big, 30 inches at least, but no more than 40. I would like to use recovered materials if at all possible. I would like to see a builder from Australia or New Zeland and somewhere in Britain and of coarse South America and anyone else that wants to join in. Due to the high costs of shipping it will have to stay in the US or Canada. Perhaps , in time, we can have them in other parts of the world. But most of our members are in Canada and The United States. Personally I'm not that concerned where it ends up, as long as it is well cared for and it's message can be heard. For me it will be the journey not the destination that counts the most.
I was thinking small, 30-40 inches. For a ship model, that is small! If we can get some international support, we can try to farm out smaller parts the further away and keep larger items, like the hull, close to the final assembler. This can be a lot of fun.
As a consideration, how about a passenger liner that became a hospital ship or Red Cross ship? Are there some medical humanitarian ships running around? I would bet they are converted passenger ships.
Ken Pugh
There was the Britanic, sister to Titanic and Olympic. It was sunk during WW1 though. I'll look through the US Navy archives.
From Ted Billings,
QuoteMr Bennett, I would surely like to join in in this endeavour, sounds
like a real winner. I am still trying to learn computor skills so I'm
unsure of how to get involved, and many questions come to mind, which
I'm sure will be answered as we go forward. At any rate, YES, I will
like to be involved!!
Ted Billings
You are certainly welcome Ted we'll keep you up to speed.
At 1/288 scale the Britannic's 852 ft lenght would be 35.5 inches long. Purhasps somewhere between 1/288 and 1/144 scale may give us what we want. Regardless of the size I am fired up over this.
lou
I second the Britannic, Anyone?
Sounds good to me. White Star Line or hospital ship?
Ken Pugh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMHS_Britannic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMHS_Britannic)
I would vote Hospital Ship myself.
Lou
If someone would like to purchase a working plan we could scan and share, So we're all working from the same place;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200258200162 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200258200162)
I could scan it and distribute it, Olympic is a sister, but there is enough info out there to make the right changes.
Great idea, Raymond! I'd like to add something, though I'm not sure my skills are up to a museum piece. The Hospital Ship would appeal to a wider range of potential recipients, especially with the WWI centennial coming in 2014.
BTW, did you get that color view here:
http://www.hospitalshipbritannic.com/
I mite have, I just go through google images.
When you go to that ebay link, click on his store. You will find that he does have a Brittannic plan that looks better than the Olympic plan and is $1 cheaper. My suggestion, someone buy it then make copies for the others who need it. We can all buy the plan, or just one person per country, etc. I am sure shipping within Canada is much cheaper than shipping between Canada and USA or other countries.
Let's look around to see if someone else has a plan, compare them, then settle on one. I also suggest we build to whatever the scale of the agreed upon plan, no matter what it's size. The ones on ebay look like a good, manageable size. So, I nominate the Brittanic plan available from the Plans N Things ebay store. I will look for some more plans as I have some ship model links and let you guys know.
http://cgi.ebay.com/RMS-BRITANNIC-plan_W0QQitemZ200219906465QQihZ010QQcategoryZ14053QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 (http://cgi.ebay.com/RMS-BRITANNIC-plan_W0QQitemZ200219906465QQihZ010QQcategoryZ14053QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262)
Ken Pugh
That drawing on eBay is a different (RMS) Britannic, a later one. The earlier ship (HMHS) was the hospital and liner with four stacks.
That's the wrong Britannic Ken, That one was built in 1932. I have a bid in on something that ends today, if I lose then I'll buy the plan and scan it. If not then I'll buy it next month and scan it. He usually has it in stock. I can the post it and mail it out on cd disk.
Ok with everyone? ::)
Now I know I need to pay attention. That's like when my wife told me they found the HMS Victory. I told her that's not too hard, it's been restored and in harbor.
Here's some more sites I found:
http://www.pbs.org/lostliners/britannic.html (http://www.pbs.org/lostliners/britannic.html)
http://titanic-model.com/articles/britannic_photos/index.shtml (http://titanic-model.com/articles/britannic_photos/index.shtml)
http://titanic-model.com/articles/gigantic/index.shtml (http://titanic-model.com/articles/gigantic/index.shtml)
http://titanic-model.com/articles/remco-hillen-2/remco-hillen-2.html (http://titanic-model.com/articles/remco-hillen-2/remco-hillen-2.html)
Ken Pugh
Well, Gents, I won my auction. So I'll have to wait until next month to by the plans. Sorry Gents.
There is a waterline plan of the RMS Olympic that would be close enough to get us a good look and perhaps act as a building guide. Donated by Marsh,
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/009bc2.jpg)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1614 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1614)
Prototype anyone?
I ordered the plan on Ebay too.
Still waiting on those plans Gents.
I would like to suggest the use of laminated pine for the hull, poplar for the superstructure, birch ply for the decks and cast silver solder for the details. I can do castings if patterns are made. and I would like to volunteer to build the top deck houses.
Portholes, windows and doors can be stenciled on. If someone could prepare a general set of stencil patterns that we can all download. You can print them on adhesive backed paper (Large shipping labels) cut them out then place them. Stipple the paint on the peel them off.
We will also have to agree on compatible paint, glues and other finishing products.
We also need to agree on what NOT to build. Most solids don't have railings for instance and have only a representation of rigging and aerials, not every functional piece.
We also need to decide what to do if we can't find a place to take it. . .
I got the plans from Ebay today. It'sa big un. :o 13x34" give me a week or two too scan and refine it. It was supposed to be blue line on white and it's more like dark blue on light blue, so some contrast work will have to be done. The I'll post it at half size for a study plan followed by a plan at the scale we've chosen in a broken form along with some close-up detail plates. I'll set up a reference file in the gallery for all of it.
Yes,. . . I am a legend, In my own mind. :P ;D
What scale are we building? Depending on the size, port holes can be substitute with metal eyelets.
Lou
I don't know yet Lou, You Fella's are going to have to decide. I'm thinking 3 to 4 feet in length.
1/350 would be about 30 inches. I can't build that small because of my shaky hands. The only part I could build would be the hull but I can't guarantee that my health will let me do it and the whole project hinges on that part. I would settle for being the plans man but I wouldn't feel right about my name on the boat. I could do the rough out of the upper deck houses but I couldn't detail them.
I did forget that Spring/Summer season is approaching this end of the world. Perhaps an official start of September/October would be better. But if we decide some things, some of us could get an early start.
1/288 would be 35.5 inches, still not a large ship. 1/200 would give us 52 inches. 1/250 scale would give us 42 inches and there are some other models in that scale even the Titanic. http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/amati_titanic.html
Let's hear it from the sub-contractors!!!!
Lou
The bigger the ship the more time you are talking about. Shipping is also more expensive. It depends on what you guys want to devote to this. I prefer the smaller ships in the 30 inch range, but that's just me.
Ken Pugh
Ultimately, it will be up too the hull builder and the assembler, they must decide. I could try to carve a large hull this summer but I can't be the assembler and someone would have to pay to ship it for assembly. But my bench is only 4 feet long and it's in my kitchen. If it was hollowed out to save weight it would help with shipping. I will do it if I have too, to get this going, but it won't be the best. The assembly person would have to detail it.
I can do the hull and hollow it our seeing it will be laminated. I have experience in that domain. So, who will assemble it. I guess the assembly should be close to the museum. I will see what supplies I have and give you a scale within the week.
Lou
P.S. Full hull or waterline?
Lou, is there a museum involved in this project? I must've missed that part.
Dave, have a read in the earlier posts.
Lou
Ok, an agreed upon museum. Definitely nothing maritime-related in my region.
I have three in my area but they are all Navy, Garet lives in Seattle there are several maritime museums there and a big one of History and Industry. There's even an unlimited Hydroplane museum, and a Coast Guard one.
Since most models I've seen of that glass are full hull, perhaps it would be nice to do a waterline model of her sailing on a placid sea. A placid sea for those at rest with her, (The writer in me :-[ ) :P
Placid seas are relatively easy.
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-39
Minus the green towel....
Lou
I have a Model Mag article somewhere about making a seascape for a museum, I'll see if I can find it.
...and a couple of tugs, and a pier.
We have a couple of maritime museums fairly close to home, but in North Carolina, the museums of all types tend to concentrate on local issues. They are less museums and more tourist centers. This all reminds me of hearing all over the world the maritime museums are moving their models into storage. This has steadily been going on for the past 15 years. They say the kids are not interested in them.
Maybe we should look at expanding our search. Since we are looking at a hospital ship and are stressing international cooperation in humanitarian efforts, why not look at things like hospitals, humanitarian groups, or non-profit organizations? There may be some humanitarian organization that has an office that could display the model. They may also like the potential publicity boost of the effort. Just a thought. Though I am sure none of us is out for publicity, organizations that raise money for their efforts may be able to use a project like this as a boost for public donations.
With this in mind, a waterline model in a diorama could be more fitting. This would also decrease the level of effort and weight of the hull.
Ideas floated, load the torpedoes.
Ken Pugh
The model will be 1/220 or z-scale. The hull will measure out to close 44 inches. It will be a waterline model and placed on placid(?) seas.
Lou
Cabin boy. Ray can be the purser
No purser. . . Engineer. ;D
Study plan has been placed. Due to the large scale of the build plan I'll have to post ot in sections.
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0)
How different is the Britannic from the Olympic?
Garet
Good Artical here;
http://www.hospitalshipbritannic.com/rms_britannic.htm (http://www.hospitalshipbritannic.com/rms_britannic.htm)
For the most part the biggest differences were in the number of life boats and their stowage, and the interior.
Due to the little amount of information available, the most we can do is try for our interpretation of what we can find. Isn't that what Solid Modeling is.
It is all about interpretation. Thank you for the Britannic link, which is very helpful. I saw that the lifeboat stanchions at the stern were very different and was curious what else was different. I did read somewhere that she had the largest turbine engine afloat at the time (for the center screw).
I've requested the following books via interlibrary loan:
The Olympic-Class Ships by Mark Chirnside
HMHS Britannic: The Last Titan by Simon Mills
and the following from my own local library:
Titanic: the story of the great White Star Line Trio by Thomas Bonsall
The other book that might be helpful is:
Hostage to Fortune: the dramatic story of the last Olympian, HMHS Britannic by Simon Mills
but it looks like there is only one copy in any US library. I'll try to find more information about it to decide if it is worth pursuing (it is available on Amazon).
Ben has placed a great article in the Gallery;
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-2573 (http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-2573)
Tanks Dude! :P
This site is also quite informative on building a Britannic model.
http://www.russell.d.wild.dsl.pipex.com/obsmt/index.htm
Lou
This fellow is Cyril Codus, He is responsible for the digital view I found of Brittanic,
http://tianic.skyrock.com/1.html (http://tianic.skyrock.com/1.html)
The missing t is not a typo.
I would like to contact him but I don't speak french, Anyone? ???
I found some Brittanic plans.
http://secured.titanichistoricalsociety.org/store/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jnroeng8 (http://secured.titanichistoricalsociety.org/store/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jnroeng8)
But I can't afford these right now Gents. :-[ Maybe in a couple of months. :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrkYZeAyqP8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrkYZeAyqP8)
Ray, I'd recommend keeping these in mind, but waiting to see what sort of information we get on the Britannic from other sources.
Garet
No worries about me buyin' any plans for awhile. ;D :'( :P
I've just discovered that a book I own (a gift from my brother, who has been reading the forum recently -- thank you!) contains 1:1200 scale drawings of HMHS Britannic (1914).
1:1200, now that's a more manageable scale for a group build!
I just checked out a library book, "Ghost liners : exploring the world's greatest lost ships" with a section about the sinking of the hospital ship Britannic.
QuoteDave T. wrote: 1:1200, now that's a more manageable scale for a group build!
Dear Dave,
The box of portholes that you made for the 1:1200 international build arrived yesterday, but appeared to be empty. Of course, I sneezed as I was opening the box. Could you check and see if they might have drifted off of your workbench when you were packaging them?
;)
Oh sure, blame it on the sub-contractor :'( The shipper is at fault on this one.
I look forward to making a 1/1200 ships captain and his corn cob pipe. Could I borrow a pair of eyes for this project?
Income tax rebate came in yesterday, so I will be shopping for hull materiel shortly. Let's see 1/1200 would be approx 8.82874 inches. A six foot captain would be .06 inches or 1.5mm. Either way it might be hard to put a beard on the old fellow. At 1/220 it is 48.12 inches long.
Quote from: lastvautour on March 25, 2009, 06:39:41 PM
I look forward to making a 1/1200 ships captain and his corn cob pipe. Could I borrow a pair of eyes for this project?
Income tax rebate came in yesterday, so I will be shopping for hull materiel shortly. Let's see 1/1200 would be approx 8.82874 inches. A six foot captain would be .06 inches or 1.5mm. Either way it might be hard to put a beard on the old fellow. At 1/220 it is 48.12 inches long.
The merest touch of glue, a pinch of talcum, and at that scale no one will be the wiser 8}
Sounds like this is underway, has anyone called dibs on the lifeboats yet?
Tom
They're yours if you want em' Tom :P
I've been reading a little about the Britannic in this book I picked up. Originally, it was to be named "Gigantic". It sank in one hour, something like half the time it took Titanic to go down, and yet most of those on board survived including the captain who "stepped off" the bridge as it went under. I'm not sure if he had a beard though, no photos of him.
This Build is on hold temporarily.
Good Morrow, Gents,
I am a bit late catching up on this, but it seems a delightful notion to me. I am afraid my rookie skills and home shop are limited to woodworking, but if that is satisfactory with the gang, count me in.
Joe
As the original multi-national build is on hold Ray and I are doing a smaller version of a two person group activity.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_USS_Preston_001.JPG)
We present USS Preston in 1/400 (?) scale. Ray started it some time ago and gave it to me as part of my winning from the modeller of the year contest. The Preston has since received a new rear gun platform deck and some new main bridge details and a forward deck gun. The stacks have been removed for convenience. More photos will follow as construction continues.
Lou
P.S. I am no longer able to commit to building the hull for the original USS Brittanic build.
It looks great guys.
Guns have been installed and railing has been started on the rear gun platform. Ray, what colour have you been using for the upper deck area? Also not in the photo yet, the torpedo tubes have also been started.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_Gun_Installation.JPG)
Tamiya Acrylic J.N. Grey XF-12 in hindsight, I should have sent the paint with the model. :-[ :P
Torpedoes are loaded as well as all the gun emplacements. If we only had propellers!!!
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_Gun_Installation.JPG)(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_Preston_%282%29.JPG)(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_Preston_%284%29.JPG)
Are you looking for a volunteer propeller maker?
I have them started but not finished yet. I could leave the propeller gear off and mail the ship to you for attachment of the propellers!!! Something to think about in the new year.
Lou
The shipyard is working full time over the holiday season. Probably will be asking for double overtime for it too. A shipment of X-12 J.N. Grey was received Sunday.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_USS_Preston_004.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-3543
The life boats are suspended by the davits and do not touch the deck. Paint will follow after the glue dries.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_USS_Preston_005.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-3542
Propeller guards have been fashioned from telephone wire. An attempt to use water soaked bamboo did not fair well. Paint to follow etc etc.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_USS_Preston_007.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-3541
Depth charge holder are installed and await paint.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_USS_Preston_008.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-3540
Main mast ready for painting and rigging.
Painting is progressing along nicely.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_USS_Preston_heavy_fog.JPG)
USS Preston proceeding into a fog bank!!!???
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_-USS_Preston--.JPG)
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_-USS_Preston-.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-3571
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF8280.JPG)
http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-3606
USS Preston has been placed in the display case and will be shown at my next public showing.
(http://smm.solidmodelmemories.net/Gallery/albums/userpics/normal_DSCF8278.JPG)
It was quite enjoyable to complete my first joint project. Thank you Ray.